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**Bill** · May 14, '10, 8:04 PM

First night as a barback/doorman I jacked a guy with my forearm under his chin for snatching ten bucks off the bar. Bad things can happen in an instant that you never intended.

**Zemo** · May 14, '10, 8:07 PM

He got killed because he stole and then fought when trying to be held for the cops. Took the clerk and three other people to subdue him, at that point its everyman for himself. He was fighting the clerk. Clerk did what he had to do at that point.

**Mikey** · May 14, '10, 8:09 PM

It said the guy died 45 minutes later.

My question is was he choked into unconsciousness and then died 45 minutes later ?

Or was he choked, seemed fine for 45 minutes and then keeled over ?

Seems weird to live for 45 minutes and then die from choking.

**Evel KMego** · May 14, '10, 8:13 PM

Stop and think for a second here - you're working as a clerk for what $6.00 an hour maybe? I wouldn't get physical with any thief. Call the police, you have security cameras. Yeah stealing is wrong, but I'm not getting in an altercation for $6.00 an hour . And guess what, I'm not gonna be facing manslaughter charges either.

**toys2cool** · May 14, '10, 8:13 PM

Originally posted by Zemo

He got killed because he stole and then fought when trying to be held for the cops. Took the clerk and three other people to subdue him, at that point its everyman for himself. He was fighting the clerk. Clerk did what he had to do at that point.

yeah but he was nobody to touch the guy as a clerk..maybe a security guard or something but the clerk is no one , I bet there's nothing on a cvs thing that says the cashier should go after and physically stop a shoplifter

**Bill** · May 14, '10, 8:22 PM

Originally posted by Evel KMego

Stop and think for a second here - you're working as a clerk for what $6.00 an hour maybe? I wouldn't get physical with any thief. Call the police, you have security cameras. Yeah stealing is wrong, but I'm not getting in an altercation for $6.00 an hour . And guess what, I'm not gonna be facing manslaughter charges either.

Unfortunately at those times it can be hard to think clearly and rationally. I can say I wouldn't do it, but looking back I did a very similar thing when I worked at the bar for a mere tenner.

Remember when the word accident still existed.

**Zemo** · May 14, '10, 8:23 PM

Originally posted by toys2cool

yeah but he was nobody to touch the guy as a clerk..maybe a security guard or something but the clerk is no one , I bet there's nothing on a cvs thing that says the cashier should go after and physically stop a shoplifter

I'm sure they don't have a policy to do that, but it is still legal for any citizen to stop a crime in progress. If things got carried away because the thief got aggressive when stopped, then well, we have what we have now. They could try for a negligent homicide or involuntarily manslaughter charge, but I would think it would be very hard to get conviction.

Cop on the seen called it an accident and the guy wouldn't calm down, 3 other passers by had to help the clerk. Police officially ruled it an accident till people started complaining.

So for political reasons it may go to trial, but what a hard case to prove. Officer on the scene "did you think it was wrong what happened" Officer "no". Thee other persons on the scene "man it took us all to hold him down" we were really scared if we let him loose".

**Bill** · May 14, '10, 8:24 PM

Originally posted by Mikey01

It said the guy died 45 minutes later.

My question is was he choked into unconsciousness and then died 45 minutes later ?

Or was he choked, seemed fine for 45 minutes and then keeled over ?

Seems weird to live for 45 minutes and then die from choking.

Something might have been damaged in his throat from the choking.

**toys2cool** · May 14, '10, 8:53 PM

Originally posted by Evel KMego

Stop and think for a second here - you're working as a clerk for what $6.00 an hour maybe? I wouldn't get physical with any thief. Call the police, you have security cameras. Yeah stealing is wrong, but I'm not getting in an altercation for $6.00 an hour . And guess what, I'm not gonna be facing manslaughter charges either.

That's exactly what i was thinking

**toys2cool** · May 14, '10, 8:53 PM

Originally posted by Zemo

I'm sure they don't have a policy to do that, but it is still legal for any citizen to stop a crime in progress. If things got carried away because the thief got aggressive when stopped, then well, we have what we have now. They could try for a negligent homicide or involuntarily manslaughter charge, but I would think it would be very hard to get conviction.

Cop on the seen called it an accident and the guy wouldn't calm down, 3 other passers by had to help the clerk. Police officially ruled it an accident till people started complaining.

So for political reasons it may go to trial, but what a hard case to prove. Officer on the scene "did you think it was wrong what happened" Officer "no". Thee other persons on the scene "man it took us all to hold him down" we were really scared if we let him loose".

I think the guy will do time

**Hector** · May 14, '10, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by toys2cool

Dam Hec that's a bit rough bro, so you're saying if a kid steals let's say a box of crayons and gets killed it's okay cause it's one less thief?

Good riddance little basterd and future bank robber...

**SlipperyLilSuckers** · May 15, '10, 1:53 AM

Originally posted by huedell

You're being too reactive. Just like in other threads where
one thinks important legal issues are handled in the reactive,
emotional context
of: "He killed someone over toothpaste! Oh NO! He's wrong!"
or: "Dogs were killed! Oh NO! He's wrong!"

There's SO much more to these stories than your emotions....these
are multi-faceted scenarios we're talking about..in legal contexts...
and in the REAL world. Fantasies, wishes and decisions based on your
emotions need not apply.

This is also just your opinion Hue, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion and manner of arriving at it.

**Brazoo** · May 15, '10, 3:14 AM

I don't know about the laws in Chicago, but here you can't even be charged with shoplifting until you actually leave the store. How can anyone prove he wasn't going to pay for those items?

There should be a murder or manslaughter investigation in my opinion. "Accepting responsibility for actions"? What about the dude who killed a guy over $5 worth of crap that didn't even belong to him?

**huedell** · May 15, '10, 4:34 AM

Originally posted by SlipperyLilSuckers

This is also just your opinion Hue, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion and manner of arriving at it.

I post on one other board like this one...and lately I've found that as much
as I think I can simplify stuff like this into straight logic...it never seems to
work quite as well as I think it will. People will think what they wanna think,
and I'm no pro on the "law", eh? I'll concede that there are some good points
put across by ones I'd call "reactive" and try and back off a bit. I've made
most of the points I've wanted to make already.

**SlipperyLilSuckers** · May 15, '10, 5:20 AM

Originally posted by huedell

I post on one other board like this one...and lately I've found that as much
as I think I can simplify stuff like this into straight logic...it never seems to
work quite as well as I think it will. People will think what they wanna think,
and I'm no pro on the "law", eh? I'll concede that there are some good points
put across by ones I'd call "reactive" and try and back off a bit. I've made
most of the points I've wanted to make already.

It's good to hear that they are going to change the law/system after that "dog thing" too.

Announcement

Shoplifter strangled to death by clerk for stealing...crayons?

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