Shoplifter strangled to death by clerk for stealing...crayons?

[Mikey]

Am I the only person who thinks of Gomer Pyle whenever I hear or read citizen's arrest ?

[Bill]

I'm all for people getting whatever ending they get when they put themselves in bad situations intentionally; but if you're stealing an item from CVS, and you can fit it into your pants, you're not worth chasing down.
There's no way they can prove intent on this, murder charges ain't gonna happen.

[Zemo]

Citizen's arrest is not "judge, jury and executioner"! The killer should be jailed. Petty shoplifting does not constitute death. Shoplifting is not a capital crime, but murder should be. Life should have more value...And the cop that watched should be jailed for letting it happen. If there was an officer present the employee had no reason to still be killing the "suspect".

Shop clerks in Chicago have the same rights as a home owner. He tried to subdue the thief and the thief resisted and struggled to get away, three other men also intervened because he was violently trying to escape. He caused his own death.

People throw around Murder charge like it's nothing, what particular murder charge would you charge the clerk with. lol

[huedell]

Citizen's arrest is not "judge, jury and executioner"! The killer should be jailed. Petty shoplifting does not constitute death. Shoplifting is not a capital crime, but murder should be. Life should have more value...And the cop that watched should be jailed for letting it happen. If there was an officer present the employee had no reason to still be killing the "suspect".

I find it ironic that someone that says don't be "judge, jury and executioner"
already knows the case inside and out including the intent of the guy
who was trying to handle a criminal and how he should be "jailed".

This needs to go to trial.

[LonnieFisher]

crayons and toothpaste=death
Everybody who thinks he "got what he deserved" must never have broke any laws in their life. Good for all you who think what happened is "okay". Hypocrisy?
Everybody who has never broke any law, please speak up.
This is a really stupid thread...
The guy who killed the shoplifter was in the wrong.

[Zemo]

I find it ironic that someone that says don't be "judge, jury and executioner"
already knows the case inside and out including the intent of the guy
who was trying to handle a criminal and how he should be "jailed".

This needs to go to trial.

I agree or maybe a grand jury. Just from the three articles I read on this, and even though they are trying to sway it the thief's way by saying he was strangled to death, which make it look like the clerk had both hands around his neck imo. I doubt, they have enough to prosecute it.

On the face, it looks like the clerk chased the thief down, he of course resisted and he was put in a choke hole that went awry. The thief in no way deserved to die, but an accident happened because of his actions.

Citizens arrests are live and legal in the U.S and as long as they can't prove malice they can't win. Keep in mind that 3 other people jumped to help the clerk, so that tells me the clerk ended up fighting to save himself.

Of course this just from what I read in the 3 articles and just opinion.

[huedell]

crayons and toothpaste=death
Everybody who thinks he "got what he deserved" must never have broke any laws in their life. Good for all you who think what happened is "okay". Hypocrisy?
Everybody who has never broke any law, please speak up.
This is a really stupid thread...
The guy who killed the shoplifter was in the wrong.

You're being too reactive. Just like in other threads where
one thinks important legal issues are handled in the reactive,
emotional context
of: "He killed someone over toothpaste! Oh NO! He's wrong!"
or: "Dogs were killed! Oh NO! He's wrong!"

There's SO much more to these stories than your emotions....these
are multi-faceted scenarios we're talking about..in legal contexts...
and in the REAL world. Fantasies, wishes and decisions based on your
emotions need not apply.

[Doc]

Absolutely. He was evidently put in a choke hold to subdue his stealing ***. The thief was a victim of his own actions. People in the world need to except responsibility for there actions. His lead to death.

Not saying death by any means is what he deserved, but it was an accidental result of his actions.

Exactly. Personal responsibility. Not enough of that in the world

[toys2cool]

anyway you put it, the guy was taking cvs items not robbing some at gun point or taking old ladies purse, he should've let the guy go....he took a mans life and he should be held accountable...here in Miami they tell you not to even bother going after someone if they take something from a store, it's not worth you getting hurt over it and the same thing for other person

[MIB41]

Well here is PROBABLY what is going to be argued -

1) What was the store policy regarding shoplifters? If the store has clear cut policy, this puts them on the hook or takes them off entirely.

2) What transpired AFTER the clerk caught up with the thief? Was this a case of excessive restraint or will the attorney argue when the clerk arrived, he was attacked and it was self defense in the struggle?

3) Was his death a direct result of the attack or did the emergency room do something to complicate the circumstances, like adminstering the wrong medication which would cause his throat to close? Quite plainly - Did they treat him properly when he was brought in?

The criminal side is up in the air, but the civil side is much more predictable. That clerk will probably get his clock cleaned there. Less evidence needed.

[ODBJBG]

I've never known any store to require you to take out a "robber" and any major chain's policy would be to leave the person alone. You can call the cops or catch them in the act, but once you get to physically assaulting them... It's off limits.

No matter what the guy was stealing, if he wasn't posing a threat, the clerk really shouldn't have attempted to choke him out.

Sounds like a basic case of manslaughter. That's what manslaughter is for.

Obviously both parties would take partial blame here, this wouldn't have happened if the guy hadn't stole some crayons, but this also wouldn't have happened if the clerk hadn't overreacted. That's a two way street.

You walk into a Police Station with guns blazing, it's your fault if you get killed. You knew that was possible. If you steal some crayons and get strangled to death, the death part isn't your fault. It can't be. No one can reasonably believe that a clerk will strangle you if you steal some crayons form CVS.


Well at least not until now.

[MIB41]

[QUOTE=ODBJBG;535794]I've never known any store to require you to take out a "robber" and any major chain's policy would be to leave the person alone. You can call the cops or catch them in the act, but once you get to physically assaulting them... It's off limits.
QUOTE]

I'm sure, but you know it will be covered. Company's have this type of language in ther policies to protect them against charges that could occurr due to their employees acting inappropriately.

[huedell]

anyway you put it, the guy was taking cvs items not robbing some at gun point or taking old ladies purse, he should've let the guy go....he took a mans life and he should be held accountable...

Thing is, being "held accountable" by many people's view on the argument,
doesn't mean the exact same thing...you can bet that you and I would be differing in opinion...so phrases like "anyway you put it..." don't really hold
water in that it gets divided up into opinion...that's why there's laws
and jurys and such to suss all this out.

My "opinion" is that this guy was doing what he thought was right at the time dealing with a shoplifter aka "a guy who was doing a criminal act"...what happened in the heat of the moment may or may not be justifiable...
but I'm nopt going to rush to judgement on a guy acting out against
a shoplifter no matter how small the crime is to the naked eye.

[LonnieFisher]

If you invited someone into your home and they grabbed a box of crayons and toothpaste and bolted out the front door what would you do?
A)Chase them down and choke them.
B)Shoot them in the back.
C)Call the cops.
D)Scratch your head and say "***?".
E)None of the above.
Just curious...

[huedell]

If you invited someone into your home and they grabbed a box of crayons and toothpaste and bolted out the front door what would you do?
A)Chase them down and choke them.
B)Shoot them in the back.
C)Call the cops.
D)Scratch your head and say "***?".
E)None of the above.
Just curious...

None of the hypothetical questions you're asking in this thread have anything to do with the situation.

It wasn't my home, and it wasn't some guy stealing toothpaste/crayons from
it...

...however, you can BET that there are some on this board who would
shoot and kill an intruder/burglar in their home and feel justified in doing so...

And, you know what? I'd say they did an appropriate thing. Maybe not
the "nicest" thing, but that's not unreasonable.

You keep posting things as if this was some fantasy world where everything goes according to good and evil and a black and white way...that's not realistic.

You feel bad a guy got killed while shoplifting....that doesn't make the killing wrong.