New Battlestar Galactica Or Old Battlestar Galactica

[grayhank]

>He is the "seven deadly sins" all wrapped up in one person.

Hmmmm.... the problem is, we STILL don't know WHY. The New Baltar isn't really all that more fleshed out than the old because he existis in a certain emotional state but we have very little idea as to why. And not just in terms of some event that set him on this road, but what it was about HIM that made him choose the path he did.

>We learn that he is very infatuated with Caprica and would do anything for her.

But again, why? (Other than she's a hot chick.) SHE was the main thing about the new show that cheesed me off, because she's completely a plot device. She's there to TELL the audience what's going on (and writhe) rather than the writers SHOW you what's going on. Having her live in baltar's head and making him infatuated with her is kind of a nice touch but it's more a plot point thatn a character point.

It doesn't sound like you've seen all the episodes up through the third season because a lot of this has been explained. Baltar came from one of the poor colonies (one of the very simplistic "worker" planets where one was never expected to be more than a farmer in life). Because of his own self-superiority he left that world at age 18 and headed straight to the planet Caprica which was considered to be at the very top of the upper class, where there was music, art, literature etc...this was all revealed in Season 3 episode "Dirty Hands". That was his motivation. He tells this story in vivid detail to the Chief Tyrel. He further elaborates upon this story to his lawyer during his trial.

He is infatuated with the Cylons because he feels they are perfect and vastly superior to humans (the same way he feels himself to be vastly superior). He states that of all the millions of men, the cylon Caprica 6 chose him because she recognized that superiority. His belief is enforced even more when a superior being sacrifices herself to save his life...so he must in fact be beyong great. His ego is so great that he wants to believe that he himself is a Cylon because that would prove that he is perfect (revealed in "Taking A Break From All Your Worries"). Caprica living in his head is a plot device, there's no question there, but she represents Baltar's "super ego" talking to him through her, in effect making Baltar's ego an individual character.

BSG does not give you a one episode origins of each character, but bits and pieces spreadout throughout the series. It's up to the viewer to to put all those pieces together so you can understand "who" or "what" the characters are about. It is very much a character development driven show. You also need a certain amount of "plot devices" to keep it interesting, there's nothing wrong with that. Unlike a book, TV does not have the option of describing every little detail so a picture forms in your head as to what is going on. One hour TV shows have about 45 minutes to relay all the pertinent information to the viewer.

If you've ever read Tolkien you would understand what I'm talking about. The man could go on for pages just describing what a tree looks like. If the movie version of Lord of the Rings had been more like the book, each movie would have had to be several hours longer than what they were. It's no wonder that about the first 8 chapters were removed from "Fellowship" for the movie.

[ctc]

>He is infatuated with the Cylons because he feels they are perfect and vastly superior to humans (the same way he feels himself to be vastly superior). He states that of all the millions of men, the cylon Caprica 6 chose him because she recognized that superiority.

Okay, but isn't that the USUAL explanation? It's tricky; but I'd much prefer to see something a little different; OR more of why his SPECIFIC mindset led him to this conclusion. This story smacks of the ol' "FOOLS! I shall crush you ALL!!!" school of movie-villainy.

...although you left out how his escallation of evilness is based on his constantly covering up the stuff he'd done in the past to cover up his evil-ness.... which is kinda cute; but again smacks of the ol' "beaten by hubris" schtick.

I dunno, it still seems like they're designing the character to fit the plot. Which is fine, and nice that they at least gave some thought to why he does this; but it still feels really... old to me. And divorces the character from the progression of the story a little much for my tastes. "Deathnote" follows the same kind of idea; but the plot is based more on the character's personality, and the story follows the character's descent into evil from originally pursuing altruistic goals. The events occur BECAUSE of the character's personality; and wouldn't happen if Light was a different person. (But I don't normally offer "Deathnote" as an example since I suspect most folks here haven't seen the show or read the comic.)

>but she represents Baltar's "super ego" talking to him through her, in effect making Baltar's ego an individual character.

Maybe; but most of the speeches don't reveal character so much as explain what's going on with the plot. THAT'S the part that bugs me!

>It's up to the viewer to to put all those pieces together so you can understand "who" or "what" the characters are about.

A friend of mine explained that part of the problem with shows like this, as he sees it; is that the show itself is pretty simple but the fans read all sorts of stuff into it that fleshes it out THEMSELVES. So to a fan it seems like there's a lot going on, but to anyone else there isn't. It's an interesting theory; but I haven't figgered out a way to test it yet.

>If you've ever read Tolkien you would understand what I'm talking about. The man could go on for pages just describing what a tree looks like.

...and fates help you if he's getting into someone's NAMES.... *shudder*

Don C.

[grayhank]

>He is infatuated with the Cylons because he feels they are perfect and vastly superior to humans (the same way he feels himself to be vastly superior). He states that of all the millions of men, the cylon Caprica 6 chose him because she recognized that superiority.

Okay, but isn't that the USUAL explanation? It's tricky; but I'd much prefer to see something a little different; OR more of why his SPECIFIC mindset led him to this conclusion. This story smacks of the ol' "FOOLS! I shall crush you ALL!!!" school of movie-villainy.

...although you left out how his escallation of evilness is based on his constantly covering up the stuff he'd done in the past to cover up his evil-ness.... which is kinda cute; but again smacks of the ol' "beaten by hubris" schtick.

I dunno, it still seems like they're designing the character to fit the plot. Which is fine, and nice that they at least gave some thought to why he does this; but it still feels really... old to me. And divorces the character from the progression of the story a little much for my tastes. "Deathnote" follows the same kind of idea; but the plot is based more on the character's personality, and the story follows the character's descent into evil from originally pursuing altruistic goals. The events occur BECAUSE of the character's personality; and wouldn't happen if Light was a different person. (But I don't normally offer "Deathnote" as an example since I suspect most folks here haven't seen the show or read the comic.)

>but she represents Baltar's "super ego" talking to him through her, in effect making Baltar's ego an individual character.

Maybe; but most of the speeches don't reveal character so much as explain what's going on with the plot. THAT'S the part that bugs me!

>It's up to the viewer to to put all those pieces together so you can understand "who" or "what" the characters are about.

A friend of mine explained that part of the problem with shows like this, as he sees it; is that the show itself is pretty simple but the fans read all sorts of stuff into it that fleshes it out THEMSELVES. So to a fan it seems like there's a lot going on, but to anyone else there isn't. It's an interesting theory; but I haven't figgered out a way to test it yet.

>If you've ever read Tolkien you would understand what I'm talking about. The man could go on for pages just describing what a tree looks like.

...and fates help you if he's getting into someone's NAMES.... *shudder*

Don C.

It's simply a matter of character analysis. There is a natural progression to his character. Again, you have to take all the pieces and put them together and then you can form a hypothesis of how his character became what he is. There are instances in nearly every episode that show how he escalates from point A to point B. Baltar does not believe himself to be evil, again he feels he is a victim. Even Adama states this to President Rosilyn "In his mind he see's himself as the victim, so you won't get the truth out of him". He covers up the truth because he is very much a coward and doesn't want to be tossed out of the airlock. People tend to lie because they are afriad of what other people might actually think of them or to suit their own needs. Baltar does both.

I think what you are asking for is an "origin" of his character. I cannot write his origin for you. I can only provide my own insight as to what his character is about based on the perceptions of what I've seen and the information they have given us. That's why I answered your original question of "what makes a character deep".

The original Baltar had no layers. No motivation was ever shown for what he did, or just what it was that he did. The other characters said he was traitor and that's all you knew about him.

I have provided you with a lot of background information on the new version of Baltar. From where he came from, to why he left his homeworld, to how he was perceived by his society, to how his society was inevitably destroyed based on his actions. What his motives were, and how he became a victim of his own motives. How he is perceived by the cylons and how he is now perceived by his people. How he perceives himself. But again these are just my perceptions...you might see something entirely different which is why the show is not working for you.