5th time is not a charm for Mark David Chapman

[Johnny]

Being a meat packer myself I gotta say, I hate when I am out in the bar and inevitably some drunk recognizes me and starts in with the "hey man, pack some meat for us", "c'mon do that funny meat pack thing" or "hey, do that line from the day you packed that meat in the wrong container" Equally annoying is when they start quoting great meat packing lines I have said or worse still when they try to act them out.

But, it is something I accepted when I joined the glamorous world of meat packing. I knew what I was getting into. It isn't all bright lights and sweet, sweet smells, my friends.

[huedell]

Being a meat packer myself I gotta say, I hate when I am out in the bar and inevitably some drunk recognizes me and starts in with the "hey man, pack some meat for us", "c'mon do that funny meat pack thing" or "hey, do that line from the day you packed that meat in the wrong container" Equally annoying is when they start quoting great meat packing lines I have said or worse still when they try to act them out.

But, it is something I accepted when I joined the glamorous world of meat packing. I knew what I was getting into. It isn't all bright lights and sweet, sweet smells, my friends.

Can you imagine the reaction of a meat packer if some one was actually that
much of a fan of their company that they wanted to talk to them---
and get to know more about the history of the company etc.
when all the guy wanted to do was drink his beer in peace
without recrimination for sluffing off the "fan"???

"But hey meat packing man you owe me some courtesy, man!
You admitted it yourself----you knew what you were
getting into when you started that career.
Yes! What you were getting into was meeting my
expectations of fan appreciation!!! Meet them expectations Meat Man"

[Hector]

Again, the majority of nations in the world disagrees with you, Seeker. You appear to believe that all persons who suffer a murder of a close loved one will react by seeking the execution of those they deem responsible. This is simply not the case. In the last 5-10 minutes I've read numerous on-line articles and accounts about family members who seek forgiveness and healing rather than blood and retribution. Hence your suggestion, that if I were to suffer such a loss I would seek homicidal vengeance, is demonstrably false.

Also, this discussion is not about loss of close relatives and friends, which appears to be your platform, but rather about losing a public figure, a beloved musician who was not in close personal contact with anyone currently engaged in this discussion. Unless and until Yoko Ono, Sean or Julian Lennon calls for Chapman's execution, which to date they has not, your express opinion that people who lose loved ones automatically seek fatal revenge is not only baseless, it is irrelevant to this discussion.

What is relevant is the matter of life imprisonment. If your aim is to keep the perpetrator from killing again, life imprisonment achieves this effect in a manner that does not destroy another human life in the service of continuing the cycle of vengeance. All of the great mythic literature of the West -- from the New Testament to Malory's Morte D'Arthur to The Lord of the Rings to Batman comics -- is a testament to the moral correctness of mercy and forgiveness. The US Constitution also forbids "cruel and unusual punishment", which death by any means you care to name most certainly is. Europe, Canada (whose murder rate is practically nil), and many US states, among other nations of the world, have stricken the death penalty from their lawbooks, and many others -- including in South America, Russia and most of Africa -- have not practiced their existing execution laws for the last decade or more.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are by far in the minority of the sum total of world opinion in this.

The majority of Americans support capital punishment...that's what counts in my book.

Whatever the rest of the world think is pretty much irrelevant to me.

Fry the sucker, fry him now.

[Vortigern99]

Because the opinions of Americans are somehow inherently more "correct" than the rest of the world? That's an interesting position, but if the majority of Americans jumped off a bridge, or for example supported a war that would prove disastrous and ill-advised, I'm not sure I would follow.

Also, there is the matter of wrongful incrimination. DNA evidence has in the last few years exonerated a number of people once headed for death row, and has even shown that some people have been wrongly executed. Those are deaths that happened as a result of this system you guys are supporting. If the death penalty were abolished, there would be no chance another innocent person would be put to death by the state. Good lord, the very reason the penalty exists is to punish those who put innocent people to death! If the state is doing the same thing, shouldn't those responsible put themselves to death? The whole enterprise is absurd and morally reprehensible.

[Hector]

You are against capital punishment, I'm for capital punishment...it's pointless to keep this going....I mean...we can keep on going until we turn blue...but you got your beliefs, I got mine.

[Vortigern99]

Sometimes people do change their minds. It's happened to me. I hope you'll at least consider my points.

[Hector]

Well Vort...I was actually AGAINST capital punishment at one point in my life.

So were are back to square one...my friend.

[Bill]

wow----all kinds of unintentional connections there Bill^^^^^

Merely a reference to the Meatmen song, "One Down Three To Go."

[huedell]

Merely a reference to the Meatmen song, "One Down Three To Go."

And THERE'S another one I didn't even see.

[JDeRouen]

Capital punishment is meant to be a deterrent, but it has been proven time and time again that it doesn't work. Why? Because most crimes are crimes of passion, or the result of a deranged psyche, neither or which can correctly consider the potential punishment for the crimes they are about to commit. (People also inherently think that they'll be the exception to the rule, that they'll be the one to "get away with it," and don't take into consideration any potential punishment.)

That, and the fact that capital punishment is rarely doled out fairly (black or hispanic vs white, rich vs poor, etc.) makes me very much against it.

Yes, if such a crime were committed against someone I love I'm sure I would want them to die, but that doesn't necessarily make it right.

Joe

[huedell]

Capital punishment is meant to be a deterrent, but it has been proven time and time again that it doesn't work. Why? Because most crimes are crimes of passion, or the result of a deranged psyche, neither or which can correctly consider the potential punishment for the crimes they are about to commit. (People also inherently think that they'll be the exception to the rule, that they'll be the one to "get away with it," and don't take into consideration any potential punishment.)

That, and the fact that capital punishment is rarely doled out fairly (black or hispanic vs white, rich vs poor, etc.) makes me very much against it.

Yes, if such a crime were committed against someone I love I'm sure I would want them to die, but that doesn't necessarily make it right.

Joe

Awesome post Joe.

It's nice to read a level and respectful post in a sea of what I've seen as
excessive "careless posting" regarding this issue.

[Hector]

Awesome post Joe.

It's nice to read a level and respectful post in a sea of what I've seen as
excessive "careless posting" regarding this issue.

Yet it is YOU who started with the personal attacks with the internet warrior comment (which I in turn answered with the internet rock star comment). Whether I comment Chapman deserves to be fried or not...it was an opinion and NOT a personal attack on you.

It's nice to read a level and respectful post in a sea of what I've seen as
excessive "careless posting" regarding this issue.

Yes, that sentence is an indirect passive-aggressive jab at everyone here who doesn't agree with you.

Why not praise Seeker who has made excellent counter-points of view on the matter? He completely disagrees with you, but he has been respectful and insightful. Has he been careless with his posts?

You are sooooooo easy to read....like the back of my hand in fact.

[BlackKnight]

Wow ~!!!
You Guys have been Busy,... I didn't even know this thread was here.

[Vortigern99]

I think we're busy going around in circles at this point. Maybe we should agree to disagree, and leave it at that?

[megoscott]

"I don't believe in killing whatever the reason!"
--John Lennon