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5th time is not a charm for Mark David Chapman
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I would tell it to both of you without discrimination. He was in the wrong when he killed someone. Can't you see the contradiction in your assertion that he, too, must now die?Comment
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You can't blame us for being againts that dick. On December 8th 1980. Every Beatle fan and music lover were minding their business living their lives. I was a freshman in high school a big time Beatle fan. Watching Monday night football....... John Lennon was minding his business coming from the studio after laying down tracks for his next album.
But along comes this piece of **** who had nothing better to do and snuffed out Lennon's life. What did John do to him?..NOTHING! John lost his life that night. Sean and Julian lost a Father. Yoko lost her husband. All of us lost a legend......I sat there miserable I cried for days. As did many of his fans around the world he meant something to us.
Yet this prick sits in a cell never misses a meal and is kept away from the general population because he wouldn't survive one day if they would put him with the rest of the inmates. He even gets interviewed when ever the anniversary comes up so he can tell his side of the story of how he killed Lennon.How nice
That Parole Board is smart because that dick wouldn't last one day if he were free.Last edited by kingdom warrior; Aug 14, '08, 5:32 PM.Comment
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Capital Punishment is always a thorny issue, because it is two issues, one sociological and one personal. People always say "If someone killed your family and friends...etc. etc."
Once you personalize it of course almost anyone would have an emotional reaction and pick up a gun, a club, whatever was handy and take the perpetrators out without any hesitation.
I loved John Lennon. He is one of my heroes. The night he was shot I was singing in a band at a club called Hoopers in Ottawa. We got the news at the club. We debated about cancelling the rest of the show because we were so distraught. Instead we did a full Beatles set to a shocked and silent crowd.
When you make it personal it is impossible to debate. No rational person does not think that MDC deserves the worst punishment imaginable. I was enraged with this man for years. He killed one of the most authentic, free thinking, truth seekers who has ever lived.
But...
As a society we can not sink to the level of the lowest common denominator. What seperates us from the "scum" the "heartless" is that we have compassion. We are better than that. If we behave as the ones that we despise do, what do we become?
It is a terribly complex and disturbing subject. I absolutely understand the anger and desire for justice. I just think we have to rise above the worst of us for our society to remain decent.Last edited by Johnny; Aug 14, '08, 5:46 PM.Comment
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Capital Punishment is always a thorny issue, because it is two issues, one sociological and one personal. People always say "If someone killed your family and friends...etc. etc."
Once you personalize it of course almost anyone would have an emotional reaction and pick up a gun, a club, whatever was handy and take the perpetrators out without any hesitation.
I loved John Lennon. He is one of my heroes. The night he was shot I was singing in a band at a club called Hoopers in Ottawa. We got the news at the club. We debated about cancelling the rest of the show because we were so distraught. Instead we did a full Beatles set to a shocked and silent crowd.
When you make it personal it is impossible to debate. No rational person does not think that MDC deserves the worst punishment imaginable. I was enraged with this man for years. He killed one of the most authentic, free thinking, truth seeker who has ever lived.
But...
As a society we can not sink to the level of the lowest common denominator. What seperates us from the "scum" the "heartless" is we have compassion. We are better than that. If we behave as the ones we despise do what do we become?
It is a terribly complex and disturbing subject. I absolutely understand the anger and desire for justice. I just think we have to rise above the worst of us for our society to remain decent.Comment
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I was right there, too; I've already given my account of how deeply John's death affected me. Later, when I was in my 20s and beginning to formulate my code of ethics and morality, I used to tell people I didn't hate anyone because hate was wrong -- except against Hitler and MD Chapman. Those people, I reasoned, were "okay "to hate, because they had taken so much from the world.
But now, in my late 30s, I've moved past even those hatreds. Their hate, their murderousness, is not mine; it came from them and does not belong to me. Fellow MM member Huedell cited STAR WARS earlier in this thread, and his points are well-taken. Yoda states that "hate leads to suffering" and so it does, because it perpetuates the cycle of pain and misery and homicidal rage. Let go of that hate, and lead a more peaceful existence without the need to suffer over emotional wounds and loss to death of loved ones.
I've never lost a loved one to murder, but I lost my sister to AIDS and my first wife to a number of tragic factors, including possible medical malpractice. If I were to contemplate the injustice of those events and hold a grudge against those I deem resposible, my life would be a wasteland of hatred and thoughts of revenge. So I let it go. Does this mean that I did not love my sister or my first wife; that I do not miss them, dream about them, want them to come back? Of course not. But they would not want me to suffer over their loss: that's the key. Their suffering has ended, and they would not want me to get caught up in hate and loss and anger over their passing.
So I reckon is the case with John Lennon. His early life was marked by anger and a feeling of persecution and injustice; but later in life, shortly before his death in fact, he became a more mellow person, no longer plagued by his youthful demons. Surely John would want the same from us. Surely John would want us to celebrate his memory through music, or contemplation of his social commentary or protests against political injustice -- not mad hatred of the disturbed individual who took his life.Comment
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Man,
I was huge Beatles fan growing up. I used to snag albums and 45s at yard sales for my Mom and I.
I didn't exactly get it when JL was killed. I was kind of in denial I guess. I just didn't clue in. I was only 11 I think.
Much the same way poor Dimebag was shot on stage and almost or on the same day! Both men were hugely influentual. Darryl was one of the most gracious, genuine, down to Earth people you could ever have the privlege to meet. The man would hand guitars out to young fans, bring fans on the bus and just hang out. He was the embodiment of what a rock star should be. GRACIOUS. If it weren't for the fans, you'd have nothing. It's that simple. Alot of celebs lose track of that. Oh I have talent... Yeah well without someone to buy your record or whatever, your talent means exactly ZERO...but I digress.
John was an icon and a hero to a lot of people and he was just taken away from those people by some twisted scumbag. You can't blame them for being angry or hurt. It was vicious and so unneccesary.Comment
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There are monsters out there that plain and simple will not stop doing what they do. Whether they are on the street still or even in jail. If there is even a small chance these people get out its too much.
The fact that these people still commit horrendous crimes against fellow inmates all the time. You have lifers racking up more body counts in prison, what can they do to them? You can't confine everybody. Is it fair that a minor criminal, maybe a kid who made a mistake get raped,tortured or killed?
Talk to a corrections guard sometime how safe they feel with these guys.Lo there do I see my Father.
Lo there do I see my Mother and my Sisters and my Brothers.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the begining.
Lo they do call me.
They bid me take my place among them.
In the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live forever.Comment
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Raydeen1 wrote:
If it weren't for the fans, you'd have nothing. It's that simple. Alot of celebs lose
track of that. Oh I have talent... Yeah well without someone to buy your record or
whatever, your talent means exactly ZERO.
also have something that equals "zero"? Is that your philosophy too?
Of course not.
That would mean that a meat packing guy has to hang out with his customers
after hours because they buy meat from his company----um----no---of course not.
Apologies, but I never understood this philosophy---it seems like ifrustrated mpassioned
"misplaced entitlement" on the part of the music fan community
(even your post drips with angry resentment)
and ironically this mindset can foster the kind of resentment that leads to fan violence
and murder in the first place----
"hey they're 'just like us' and they're not behaving the way I want them too--
--so I'm mad."----well, don't YOU want your friggin' privacy and not to be hassled
when you're not performing (i.e. "working") ???
If a celebrity you respect hangs out with you when you'd like---it's a more of a "gift" not a "given"Last edited by huedell; Aug 14, '08, 7:46 PM."No. No no no no no no. You done got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna'. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. I think I'll scoot over here right by this winda', let this beautiful carriage rock me to sleep, and dream about how lucky I am." - Chris MannixComment
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Apples and oranges. You do not have to be a fan of JimBob down at the meat packing plant to buy meat. This statement is totally absurd. It's NOT entertainment.
You TOTALLY missed the point and took everything I said to some weird, out of context point.
I'm a muscian. I've met PLENTY of celebs and I never said ANYTHING about the muscians HAVING to hang with fans. I said Dime was GRACIOUS and a wonderful human being. The way celebs SHOULD be. GRACIOUS. If not for the fans, they'd have nothing. I always treated fans of my band like I'd want to be treated. If they don't buy your tapes, you get nothing. It's simple math. Have a big ego and **** all over your fans and when they don't buy your stuff anymore, who's to blame? I NEVER said they must stop buying groceries or eat a meal or whatever you're getting at.
All that said, if you don't want the attention, maybe it's time to look at a different career?????
Raydeen1 wrote:
And without people to buy "meat" people at a meat packing plant would
also have something that equals "zero"? Is that your philosophy too?
Of course not.
That would mean that a meat packing guy has to hang out with his customers
after hours because they buy meat from his company----um----no---of course not.
Apologies, but I never understood this philosophy---it seems like ifrustrated mpassioned
"misplaced entitlement" on the part of the music fan community
(even your post drips with angry resentment)
and ironically this mindset can foster the kind of resentment that leads to fan violence
and murder in the first place----
"hey they're 'just like us' and they're not behaving the way I want them too--
--so I'm mad."----well, don't YOU want your friggin' privacy and not to be hassled
when you're not performing (i.e. "working") ???
If a celebrity you respect hangs out with you when you'd like---it's a more of a "gift" not a "given"Comment
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You TOTALLY missed the point and took everything I said to some weird, out of
context point.
Actually I totally got your point----I'll tell ya where I just screwed up royally---
it was with the metaphor I used to show how twisted your original post's philosophy
really was.
Here's the proof that my original post minus the meat packer metaphor
supports what I'm trying to say after fully understanding your post.....you said:
All that said, if you don't want the attention, maybe it's time to look at a
different career?????
confirms what I got from your original post...
You'll suggest a celeb getting a different career because they'd prefer to not
be "your version" of "gracious" and hang with fans and be buddy-buddy like
Dime was----and, was, in your eyes "supposed" to be????
Show me where it's written that entertainers have to work extra hard
outside of their actual work performance to curry a fan's approval of
how they "should" be-----it's ludicrous man.
And, I repeat----it's misplaced attitudes and expectations like yours
that contribute to getting nutjobs angry at celebrity people.Last edited by huedell; Aug 14, '08, 8:33 PM."No. No no no no no no. You done got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna'. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. I think I'll scoot over here right by this winda', let this beautiful carriage rock me to sleep, and dream about how lucky I am." - Chris MannixComment
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wow----all kinds of unintentional connections there Bill^^^^^
(I'll take this opportunity, also to say that my "meat packer" metaphor actually
still stands--- but ----to explain it to Raydeen dilutes the point...which basically
is why the HECK is the field of entertainment the most scrutinized when it
comes to performance "off the clock"?----it's worse than policemen, teachers,
and lawyers combined----HEY I'll take the oipposite of Raydeen's statement
...I say, if it annoys you that rock stars, actors etc. could actually do
their creative jobs and have no more obligations----then either calm
down and ignore that sensible concept OR actually WORK to BECOME an
entertainer to getchya some of those tasty benefits thatthey supposedly have!)"No. No no no no no no. You done got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna'. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. I think I'll scoot over here right by this winda', let this beautiful carriage rock me to sleep, and dream about how lucky I am." - Chris MannixComment
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