5th time is not a charm for Mark David Chapman

[Cosmicman]

"Life is what happens to you while your busy making other plans."

-John Lennon 1980-


My brother and I wrote a song about John Lennon in 1996 called, "He was...I am". It pretty much covered everything we have talked about in these last four or five pages of posts. It has given me the initiative to go dig it up and re-record it and possibly make a music video for it.

People need to remember John Lennon.
1940-1980

[AUSSIE-Rebooted-AMM]

"I don't believe in killing whatever the reason!"
--John Lennon

That is a brilliant quote to add. . . .no doubt about that.

But give him 5 minutes notice of what was about to happen to him. . . .I am guessing he would have had a very sudden change of opinion. He would have been very happy for another person to be killed so that an innocent person namely himself, could and absolutely correctly . . .been allowed to live out a normal happy life with wife, children friends and loved ones. Pretty darn sure. . . that given 5 minutes notice. . . John would have been trying to find/buy/access a gun himself. . . . as would I or any innocent person.

Had it been Yoko. . . shot by a disappointed and rabbid Beatles fan, blaming her for the break up or something. . . he probably would have very different views as well.

Rich, famous people with too much money and free time. . . .protected from the normal day to day stressors of life. . . .often afford to have unrealistic views as well. . . .that the rest of us can't afford to share. Nothing specific to John necessarilly here. . . just an over generalisation that often times is true.

[Johnny]

"I don't believe in killing whatever the reason!"
--John Lennon

Every now and then a perfect post occurs. In this thread that was it.

Brilliant.

[huedell]

Number One ----Hector: Apologies if it got too personal. I just have a habit of
criticizing people when they speak "big words" regarding important issues on the Net----
it's very EASY to do, but very HARD to follow up.

Two...YES my post you were referring to WAS an indirect passive-agressive jab at you
and the ones that disagree with me---it also was commending Joe's level headedness--
and...
--I'm proud to admit that, because I believe in that.

Was that a mature post from me?
I thought so. You didn't.
I don't know what else to say to THAT point.

Third----I probably didn't commend seeker's post because it probably didn't come off
as balanced as Joes' (I'll have to re-read seeker's posts in this thread)-
---yes, whatever you want to believe, my full intention of my post wasn't to be
an attack on the ones who disagree with me---it was because I SINCERELY thought Joe's stance
was the most well put....balance, thoughfulness in a certain siotauation which I thought
you and others lacked Hector.

And Raydeen---not to sound immature or short---but regardless of all the explanation
you could give, I know what you're saying----yours' is a pretty common stance for "fans"
across the globe and, even though I know this---- I still get the creeps anyway----

it's like there's this unwritten law that stars owe fans something more than
it makes any sense to owe---

yes, you're not sure exactly how I'm interpreting your posts---but be assured,
I'm getting enough of the gist---you've noted different things in your posts
in this thread that in their own way add up to baselesss expectations----with nothing more
than "they knew what they were getting into" as a defense---THAT to start with
is silly----everything AFTER that is just icing on the "silly cake".

To both Hector AND Raydeen----hey we can agree to disagree---
Hector has used the words "personal attacks"---so if it appears I'm getting too
harsh reacting to your posts---then I have to apologize. I just thought
my specific problems with your specific posts were focused---and not mean-spirited--
and that's what I'm concerned about, frankly.

[Raydeen1]

Huedell,
Starting off with a sigh is just a pathetic attempt to make me look bad.

You still totally missed the point and you are putting words in mouth.

I don't have any expectations when I meet celebs and I've met my share. The ENTIRE point of what I said was how Dime was gracious like celebs should be. If you work hard and make a career for yourself, more power to you but if you whine about the celebrity thing, honestly, that's just pathetic. These people KNOW WELL IN ADVANCE what they are getting in to. Poor career move if you don't want attention. Now, I never said word one about interupting folks at meals or stalking or being on their property or any of that nonsense...but if you play a show in Timbuckto and fans want your autograph, it's a sad day when you turn your nose up at them.

You are typing things I never said and somehow reading things I didn't write. Much like me disapproving of IronBatman's armor, without reading what's said, the first thing people say is: "Why don't we put him in Adam's West's suit then"? NOT ONCE did I say I wanted that but that's how people perceive things just because I happen to think he looks rediculous and unlike Batman in the armour.

You read way too much in to a few comments Huedell.

Are we done with the personal attacks now? Can you honestly not state your point, whatever it is, well enough without resorting to childishness?

*sigh*

Actually I totally got your point----I'll tell ya where I just screwed up royally---

it was with the metaphor I used to show how twisted your original post's philosophy
really was.

Here's the proof that my original post minus the meat packer metaphor
supports what I'm trying to say after fully understanding your post.....you said:


Even AFTER my miswritten observation of your post---your follow up post
confirms what I got from your original post...

You'll suggest a celeb getting a different career because they'd prefer to not
be "your version" of "gracious" and hang with fans and be buddy-buddy like
Dime was----and, was, in your eyes "supposed" to be????

Show me where it's written that entertainers have to work extra hard
outside of their actual work performance to curry a fan's approval of
how they "should" be-----it's ludicrous man.

And, I repeat----it's misplaced attitudes and expectations like yours
that contribute to getting nutjobs angry at celebrity people.

[megoscott]

"I don't believe in killing whatever the reason!"
--John Lennon

[Vortigern99]

I think we're busy going around in circles at this point. Maybe we should agree to disagree, and leave it at that?

[BlackKnight]

Wow ~!!!
You Guys have been Busy,... I didn't even know this thread was here.

[Hector]

Awesome post Joe.

It's nice to read a level and respectful post in a sea of what I've seen as
excessive "careless posting" regarding this issue.

Yet it is YOU who started with the personal attacks with the internet warrior comment (which I in turn answered with the internet rock star comment). Whether I comment Chapman deserves to be fried or not...it was an opinion and NOT a personal attack on you.

It's nice to read a level and respectful post in a sea of what I've seen as
excessive "careless posting" regarding this issue.

Yes, that sentence is an indirect passive-aggressive jab at everyone here who doesn't agree with you.

Why not praise Seeker who has made excellent counter-points of view on the matter? He completely disagrees with you, but he has been respectful and insightful. Has he been careless with his posts?

You are sooooooo easy to read....like the back of my hand in fact.

[huedell]

Capital punishment is meant to be a deterrent, but it has been proven time and time again that it doesn't work. Why? Because most crimes are crimes of passion, or the result of a deranged psyche, neither or which can correctly consider the potential punishment for the crimes they are about to commit. (People also inherently think that they'll be the exception to the rule, that they'll be the one to "get away with it," and don't take into consideration any potential punishment.)

That, and the fact that capital punishment is rarely doled out fairly (black or hispanic vs white, rich vs poor, etc.) makes me very much against it.

Yes, if such a crime were committed against someone I love I'm sure I would want them to die, but that doesn't necessarily make it right.

Joe

Awesome post Joe.

It's nice to read a level and respectful post in a sea of what I've seen as
excessive "careless posting" regarding this issue.

[JDeRouen]

Capital punishment is meant to be a deterrent, but it has been proven time and time again that it doesn't work. Why? Because most crimes are crimes of passion, or the result of a deranged psyche, neither or which can correctly consider the potential punishment for the crimes they are about to commit. (People also inherently think that they'll be the exception to the rule, that they'll be the one to "get away with it," and don't take into consideration any potential punishment.)

That, and the fact that capital punishment is rarely doled out fairly (black or hispanic vs white, rich vs poor, etc.) makes me very much against it.

Yes, if such a crime were committed against someone I love I'm sure I would want them to die, but that doesn't necessarily make it right.

Joe

[huedell]

Merely a reference to the Meatmen song, "One Down Three To Go."

And THERE'S another one I didn't even see.

[Bill]

wow----all kinds of unintentional connections there Bill^^^^^

Merely a reference to the Meatmen song, "One Down Three To Go."

[Hector]

Well Vort...I was actually AGAINST capital punishment at one point in my life.

So were are back to square one...my friend.

[Vortigern99]

Sometimes people do change their minds. It's happened to me. I hope you'll at least consider my points.