Is Sabbath, Zeppelin & Alice METAL ?

[The Sentry]

>for the most part it all sounds the same to me.

That's probably 'cos by now you've got a huge repitoire of music stored in your head; and a lot of it ISN'T new to you. I get the same way with comic books.

>I could never understand that whole "Maiden vs. Priest" mentality that alot of fans took.

In general, people have this insane need to "back the winner." Which of course means there HAS to be a winner. Part of that is the idea that old is bad. Judas Priest ARE the Gods of Metal. Really. BUT when you listen to their stuff NOW it doesn't sound like most people's idea of Metal. It's closer to hard rock. But that's the result of growth and experimentation from others; like Maiden. Maiden fronted the "new wave" of Metal in the 80's (along with Metallica) and for a lot of fans, especially those who got into the music at that time THIS sound defines Metal. So everything before is invalid, 'cos the new groups are "the winner."

>I bet there are people out there who love them equally, but I have never met one!

Yes you have.....

>Alice Cooper is metal.

Yup. Same principle. He doesn't sound like what people consider Metal NOW; but his style of showmanship, presentation and preoccupation with the sinister set the tone for what came later. As I recall, Alice was the first group referred to as "Heavy Metal."

>I love Tull, but I agree they aren't "Metal"

I thought so too.... but I had a conversation with an oldschool metalhead and he pointed out that the SOUND is most definitely NOT metal, but a lot of their ideas and themes are. Illigitimate cousins of metal maybe?

Don C.

Well, you are prolly right about me hearing so much it all sounds the same. Good point, it's hard for me to enjoy most new comics now due to reading them so much from childhood to now.

Well, now I can say I have met someone who digs them both equally! Thanks for being the first!

As for Alice, anyone who has heard "Constrictor" and still rides on the fact he ain't metal, well then.........I really don't know what to say there!

For Tull, I totally agree, cousins? Oh yes, defintley. I mean listen to the powerchords on the Aqualung album. Tell me that ain't the building blocks of metal.

Great points, thanks man. Sorry for the long wait on the reply.

[Vortigern99]

Heavy metal music - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the "Etymology" section of the above-linked wiki article:

Etymology

The origin of the term heavy metal in a musical context is uncertain. The phrase has been used for centuries in chemistry and metallurgy. An early use of the term in modern popular culture was by countercultural writer William S. Burroughs. His 1962 novel The Soft Machine includes a character known as "Uranian Willy, the Heavy Metal Kid." Burroughs's next novel, Nova Express (1964), develops the theme, using heavy metal as a metaphor for addictive drugs: "With their diseases and orgasm drugs and their sexless parasite life forms—Heavy Metal People of Uranus wrapped in cool blue mist of vaporized bank notes—And The Insect People of Minraud with metal music."[47]

Metal historian Ian Christe describes what the components of the term mean in "hippiespeak": "heavy" is roughly synonymous with "potent" or "profound," and "metal" designates a certain type of mood, grinding and weighted as with metal.[48] The word "heavy" in this sense was a basic element of beatnik and later countercultural slang, and references to "heavy music"—typically slower, more amplified variations of standard pop fare—were already common by the mid-1960s. Iron Butterfly's debut album, released in early 1968, was titled Heavy. The first recorded use of heavy metal is a reference to a motorcycle in the Steppenwolf song "Born to Be Wild," also released that year:[49] "I like smoke and lightning/Heavy metal thunder/Racin' with the wind/And the feelin' that I'm under." A late, and disputed, claim about the source of the term was made by "Chas" Chandler, former manager of the Jimi Hendrix Experience. In a 1995 interview on the PBS program Rock and Roll, he asserted that heavy metal "was a term originated in a New York Times article reviewing a Jimi Hendrix performance," in which the author likened the event to "listening to heavy metal falling from the sky." A source for Chandler's claim has never been found.

The first documented uses of the phrase to describe a type of rock music are from reviews by critic Mike Saunders. In the November 12, 1970, issue of Rolling Stone, he commented on an album put out the previous year by the British band Humble Pie: "Safe As Yesterday Is, their first American release, proved that Humble Pie could be boring in lots of different ways. Here they were a noisy, unmelodic, heavy metal-leaden ****-rock band with the loud and noisy parts beyond doubt. There were a couple of nice songs...and one monumental pile of refuse." He described the band's latest, self-titled release as "more of the same 27th-rate heavy metal crap."[50] In a review of Sir Lord Baltimore's Kingdom Come in the May 1971 Creem, Saunders wrote, "Sir Lord Baltimore seems to have down pat most all the best heavy metal tricks in the book."[51] Creem critic Lester Bangs is credited with popularizing the term via his early 1970s essays on bands such as Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath.[52] Through the decade, heavy metal was used by certain critics as a virtually automatic putdown. In 1979, lead New York Times popular music critic John Rockwell described what he called "heavy-metal rock" as "brutally aggressive music played mostly for minds clouded by drugs,"[53] and, in a different article, as "a crude exaggeration of rock basics that appeals to white teenagers."[54]

The terms "heavy metal" and "hard rock" have often been used interchangeably, particularly in discussing bands of the 1970s, a period when the terms were largely synonymous.[55] For example, the 1983 Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll includes this passage: "known for its aggressive blues-based hard-rock style, Aerosmith was the top American heavy-metal band of the mid-Seventies."[56] Few would now characterize Aerosmith's classic sound, with its clear links to traditional rock and roll, as "heavy metal." Even some acts closely identified with the emergence of the genre, such as Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple, are not considered heavy metal bands by some in the present-day metal community.

[ctc]

>The terms "heavy metal" and "hard rock" have often been used interchangeably,

I think part of the problem with descriptive terms like this (and why you shouldn't get hung up on it) is the perspective of the person USING them. For the uninitiated Zep, Priest and Cannibal Corpse are all metal: "they got them electric guitars and the singer is just screamong...." To an active fan they're not only different but belong to different genres altogether. (since "metal" consists of speed, death, black, prog, power....) Terms come about as needed.

>For Tull, I totally agree, cousins? Oh yes, defintley.

It was a weird conversation, but he pointed out all the themes that later metal draws from, and how Tull had done 'em years earlier. The dark, supernatural stuff (Kelpie, A Passion Play... which features a guy who gets kicked OUT of hell....) sympathy for the average working class person (Orion, A Stitch in Time) and a general rejection of what's handed to you. (Dark Ages, Fallen on Hard Times.)

Don C.

[nvmbrsdoom5]

Bands like Iron Maiden were hugely influenced by Jethro Tull. I'm pretty sure they're one of Steve Harris' favorite bands, and you can definitely sense the influences there.