Is Sabbath, Zeppelin & Alice METAL ?

[Vortigern99]

The thing is, before the style of music we currently call "Metal" developed in the early-mid 80s with Megadeth and Metallica, we had a term called "Heavy Metal" which included Sabbath and Zeppelin and even Aerosmith, Def Leppard and I guess Alice Cooper. When people call those bands "metal" I believe that's a vestige of the previous, now outdated, nomenclature.

[Cosmicman]

Alice Cooper, (born Vincent Furnier; February 4, 1948; who happens to be one of my influences) started out as shock rock. When he took the band name "Alice Cooper" as his real name after the original lineup dwindled away through the years. He moved into the 80s and his edge became harder and he blended into the metal scene. Thus, Alice has been considered metal ever since.
Yes, Alice Cooper is metal or at least he is now. Listen to "Brutal Planet." If that isn't metal, then I don't know what is.

[4NDR01D]

Alice Cooper, (born Vincent Furnier; February 4, 1948; who happens to be one of my influences) started out as shock rock. When he took the band name "Alice Cooper" as his real name after the original lineup dwindled away through the years. He moved into the 80s and his edge became harder and he blended into the metal scene. Thus, Alice has been considered metal ever since.
Yes, Alice Cooper is metal or at least he is now. Listen to "Brutal Planet." If that isn't metal, then I don't know what is.

If you've heard their first album "Pretties for you" I think you must agree that while shortlived, Alice Cooper actually started of as a somewhat typical (for the era) blues influenced psych/garage rock band. Really good stuff that seems to get overlooked by just about everybody.
Check out the cut "ain't that just like a woman", to hear some fine "harp" work by Vinnie himself.

[Overkill]

I believe Black Sabbath is metal while the others influenced the genre but aren't a part of it themselves. (Not completely sure about Alice Cooper). Also, I've heard that Black Sabbath was the pioneer band of the genre Doom Metal in which the songs sounds (in it's most basic definition) slow and menacing, hence the label doom, like their title song "Black Sabbath". Judas Priest is an example of Heavy Metal. And some other bands have been credited to adding to the creation of metal like Blue Cheer and Iron Butterfly with their pyschedelic yet harder riffs. So it's really hard to say who 'created' metal, when there's definitely been a lot put into the genre by a broad range of bands, and it's really not fair to credit the genre itself to only one band.

[Mikey]

It's a really tough one...

Even bands like Pink Floyd dabbled in what has later become metal.

Every hear, The Nile Song from 1968 ?

Only music with a static photo
YouTube - Pink Floyd - The Nile Song

m

[nvmbrsdoom5]

The Canadian prog-metal band Voivod did an awesome cover of "The Nile Song" in the early '90s. They also did a well known cover of "Astronomy Domine".

Again, I don't think of Pink Floyd being a metal band, but did they influence alot of metal bands/artists? Absolutely.

[cjefferys]

If you've heard their first album "Pretties for you" I think you must agree that while shortlived, Alice Cooper actually started of as a somewhat typical (for the era) blues influenced psych/garage rock band. Really good stuff that seems to get overlooked by just about everybody.
Check out the cut "ain't that just like a woman", to hear some fine "harp" work by Vinnie himself.

Alice also went in some different directions and styles in the late 70s and early 80s with albums like "From the Inside", "Lace and Whiskey", "Dada", etc. Very far from heavy metal.

I consider Black Sab more of "proto metal", a big influence on later metal bands.

KISS: music-wise, a straight forward, simple hard rock band

Led Zep: a heavily blues based rock band, along with folk and world music influences. That's one reason why I like them so much, their songs have so many different styles. The band almost defies catagorization.

I agree with the comment that "heavy metal" meant a different thing in the 70's than it does today. And of course, metal itself now has a seemingly endless amount of sub genres.

I don't know, maybe it's just a fool's game to try and put music in neat catagories.

[megoat]

I don't know, maybe it's just a fool's game to try and put music in neat catagories.

This is true. Most labels are pretty loosely defined. MANY things fit under the umbrella of most music labels--then you have to start to sub catagorize. I mean, take ROCK N' ROLL for instance. This includes everything from Elvis to The Beatles to Black Sabbath to Black Flag etc etc....

Also, no music form is born overnight. They evolve over time. The origins of Metal are found in the late 60's as a sort of offshoot of the hard rock/hard psych/hard blues scene. Most early "hard rock" was a "hard blues". So yeah, Zeppelin certainly fits into the equation. It really wasn't until the late 70's NWOBHM that the blues element was taken away. Sabbath certainly were the progenitors of the darkness and the doom. They really are THE proto-metal band. But when their first LP came out, it would have just been understood as a dark psych record with a hard edge. It took years for metal to form into it's own distinct form....

And since we're on the topic of proto metal, I'd like to take the time to share one of my faves. Flower Travelin' Band outta Japan. Early 70's Far East Sabbath Heavy Weirdness. They rule:

YouTube - Flower Travellin' Band 8mm footage

[Brue]

I'd say Zep has always been lumoed with metal or at least hard rock based on a few songs, bands intensity and time of popularity. Are they metal - No. Classic Rock is too generic - I'd go Blues rock.

Sabbath - defines heavy metal

Alice Cooper certainly could go in that category but could be placed elswhere.

Kiss - disco era heavy metal - which as stated earlier is Glam rock.

November's Doom? I dunno - how do you categorize legends?

[hobub]

I'd have to say that along with Steppenwolf with the lyric "heavy metal thunder" coining the name and Iron Butterfly with their hard core heavy sound, the one band that stands out to me that was heavier than Zeppelin, and Sabbath both for the same exact time period was Deep Purple. If you compare, though the others had heavy sound to them in some of their songs. Purple, with fireball and deep purple in rock, no doubt had a very early start to the later sound that developed into hard core metal.

Check out these early head bangers. And I never even knew hippies could be head bangers.

no no no

child in time

Killer stuff. Don't forget the Purple. Check out the links. Some very early metal stuff there.

[Cosmicman]

Sometimes I don't even know why I bother posting my two cents.

[hobub]

The God of Hell's Fire and significant influence of both Alice and Kiss.

[apes3978]

[QUOTE=The Toyroom;149576]Just remember that when these bands first came out terms like "Classic Rock" didn't exist...to quote "Bowling for Soup" in "1985":

"When did Motley Crue become Classic Rock"? [QUOTE]

That line in that song has nothing to do with "classic rock" per se... It's all about that chick in the song being stuck in the 80s and wondering when Crue became "classic rock" as in they're an "oldies/classic" band now... The same way she didn't know who Hagar was when she asks "Who's that other guy sisnging in Van Halen?"

[Goblin19]

I would agree. The only true metal band is Black Sabbath. Zeppelin could be metal, but wasn't too frequently. Alice is just rock, while KISS is bad glam rock. Sorry, I don't like KISS.

[huedell]

I would agree. The only true metal band is Black Sabbath. Zeppelin could be metal, but wasn't too frequently. Alice is just rock, while KISS is bad glam rock. Sorry, I don't like KISS.

It's okay Goblin--as a KISS fan and a guy who could care less about Alice---
I could just describe Alice as "bad rocK"---wouldn't have done so originally--
-but ye who cast the first stone