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Who Killed Kennedy (JFK)? What say you?

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  • piecemaker
    There's no need to fear..
    • Jan 26, 2009
    • 4634

    #91
    Many experts have said the Zapruder film is a fake.Here's one and his list of major "mistakes".

    There are many other mistakes claimed by him and others.
    You never see the lead car or the Presidential limo actually make the turn onto Elm street,some say these missing frames are hiding shots fired as the limo makes the turn.
    Tina Towner also filmed the motorcade,the frames that would have shown the limo making the turn were "damaged" by the FBI.

    The people across the street from the TSBD are seen actually moving,the people standing opposite are all virtually motionless,no clapping or waving as the motorcade goes by.They are just frozen in time.

    Jean Hill claims that she was in the street when the Presidential limo drove by her.Her friend Maryann Moorman says she was on the grass when she took her picture,but tests done by some experts conclude that she had to of be in the street also when she took her picture.
    Both were wearing dark shoes but the Zapruder film shows them wearing white shoes.
    Theorists contend that since the limo would have blocked both their shoes from view,that the forgers had to guess what color shoes they were wearing.Photos taken by them the morning of the assasination show them both wearing dark shoes.
    [img]http://piecemaker.smugmug.com/photos/i-h4bbvHN/0/M/i-h4bbvHN-M.jpg[/img]

    As seen in the Zfilm.
    [img]http://piecemaker.smugmug.com/photos/i-7Xx9gnd/0/M/i-7Xx9gnd-M.jpg[/img]

    Comment

    • Brazoo
      Permanent Member
      • Feb 14, 2009
      • 4767

      #92
      I'm seriously not trying to insult you or criticize you personally, but I honestly just don't get this kind of thing. Aside from just pointing out these perceived anomalies - what are the overall theory this evidence points to then?

      That Moorman, Hill and Zapruder were all in on the conspiracy too? That they all lied and willingly played their roles for years and years? Wouldn't that involve family and friends too? Are they saying these people were told about the assassination ahead of time, and they were all cool with it? Did everyone who was asked to participate decide to become involved without question, or were there people who were asked but refused? If any of this is true, then are the theorists saying these participants willingly pulled off this plan with incredible efficiency, but made the bizarre random errors, like changing their shoes?

      Or are these theorists claiming the Zapruder film was created after the fact in some kind of re-creation. Wouldn't that involve dozens and dozens of cast and crew who would now be 'in' on the conspiracy? How were there no witnesses to the filming of this re-enactment? How could witnesses who were on the record like Zapruder, Hill and Moorman not say anything about the details being wrong? Then there's other odd touches, like the conspirators were able to find incredibly convincing doubles for Moorman and Hill, who would also agree to go along with the conspiracy, but they still got details like the shoe colours wrong?

      Maybe the theorists are claiming that the film was fabricated in some artificial way, then how is it that no modern digital technique exists for proving the film is fraudulent? Are the theorists saying that in the 60s they had better and still unknown technology for forging images on film? Then is the idea that the conspirators had this incredible and un-reproducable technology, but got details like the shoe colours wrong?

      How did they pull off all these people working in consort that quickly? Wasn't there only a few weeks between Kennedy's planned visit to Texas and the assassination? When was the Zapruder film taken by the secret service? Hours later? Didn't Life Magazine get it soon after that? How quickly could something like this be faked/altered?


      Occam's Razor says: with competing theories cut away the ones that rely on the most new assumptions.

      So, I look at a thing like the shoe colour changing and I decide that I have to make tons of new assumptions to make any of the above theories work, or I can make simple single assumptions like: the sun's reflection made Hill and Moorman's shoes look lighter from that angle, OR Hill and Moorman took off their shoes and we're seeing their socks, OR they changed their shoes for some reason between when the first photos were taken and the Zapruder film was shot.

      Also, witnesses have been scientifically proven again and again in controlled and measurable ways to be terrible at getting details correct. Especially when something emotionally affecting happens. Isn't it easier to assume the witnesses got some details wrong, then to assume that a growing number of participants are involved in an incredibly complex conspiracy like this - and remained involved and silent for decades?

      I get how people believe in the sinister side of the government, and I do believe that people are often manipulated by people with power. I even get how finding these anomalies can tend to support that feeling of mistrust - but what I don't get is how these anomalies are suppose to add up to a believable single theory of how this conspiracy could have worked.
      Last edited by Brazoo; Nov 22, '13, 9:56 AM.

      Comment

      • EmergencyIan
        Museum Paramedic
        • Aug 31, 2005
        • 5470

        #93
        Personally, it never crossed my mind that the Zapruder film might be a fake. I just don't buy that theory.

        - Ian
        Rampart, this is Squad 51. How do you read?

        Comment

        • Brazoo
          Permanent Member
          • Feb 14, 2009
          • 4767

          #94
          One thing I'm totally certain of is that the theories on the page piecemaker posted, suggesting that analog methods of creating the film by splicing images together "like Marry Poppins..." would be incredibly easy to detect. Even without modern digital technology. Special effect techniques like that are never seamless. Maybe the average viewer cannot tell when an image has been altered, layered or constructed with masking techniques like that, but there is no possible known way to hide the seams from experts.

          If anything, movies like Marry Poppins are almost always altered through digital remastering to try and hide those obvious seams for audiences and HD resolution now. And even with the best known digital manipulation simple studies of the film grain made by zooming in would show the seams of the overlapping images.

          That theory, to me, is simply impossible.

          Maybe an incredibly expert forger could get away with fooling forensic people with still image prints - and no negatives - but not with film, to my knowledge.
          Last edited by Brazoo; Nov 22, '13, 9:58 AM.

          Comment

          • piecemaker
            There's no need to fear..
            • Jan 26, 2009
            • 4634

            #95
            Brazoo,i thought you were bowing out. J/K.I dont believe all of what is said by the experts on the this theory,but every theory no matter how outrageous should be looked at.There may be shreds of truth to found.The laws of physics are a fact and somethings shown in that film are not possible according to those laws.

            Read everything in the articles i linked before dismissing it all.

            Comment

            • Brazoo
              Permanent Member
              • Feb 14, 2009
              • 4767

              #96
              Originally posted by piecemaker
              Brazoo,i thought you were bowing out. J/K.I dont believe all of what is said by the experts on the this theory,but every theory no matter how outrageous should be looked at.There may be shreds of truth to found.The laws of physics are a fact and somethings shown in that film are not possible according to those laws.

              Read everything in the articles i linked before dismissing it all.







              Well, LadyZod PMed me and had a good point about JFK's assassination being more than just an American historical event - then that interview popped up on a podcast I was listening to, and that piqued my interest more. I guess the whole anniversary is making me more curious too.

              Also, the conversation seemed to be so civil, respectful and interesting that I figured what the hey. I do like discussing conspiracy theories and controversies like this - even though JFK isn't the one I'm most knowledgable about, but this discussion is making me curious to learn more.

              I'll go through the articles you posted for sure! Thanks man!

              Comment

              • Sideshow Spock
                valar morghulis
                • Mar 8, 2005
                • 2859

                #97
                Old-school Colbert interview with conspiracy-debunker Vincent Bugliosi..

                Comedy Central makes you laugh with satirical shows, stand-up special and classics, including The Daily Show and South Park.


                Conspiracy theorists don't go by facts, they go by what feels right to them

                Comment

                • osker55
                  Booyaaa
                  • Aug 8, 2011
                  • 1519

                  #98
                  the government did it hahahah
                  Wants....

                  AHI wolfman mint hairy Version
                  AHI wolfman moc
                  Lincoln Wolfman and Mummy
                  Kresge moc WGSH
                  Other stuff to update

                  Comment

                  • EmergencyIan
                    Museum Paramedic
                    • Aug 31, 2005
                    • 5470

                    #99
                    CBS and NBC's news website are both streaming full 1963 coverage of the Kennedy assassination, right now. Both began earlier this afternoon. I'm not sure about NBC, but CBS will continued full 1963 coverage through Kennedy's funeral on Monday afternoon.

                    This evening, the History channel will air two new specials. CNN will air a film at 10pm EST on the Kennedy assassination which was coproduced by Tom Hanks. Also, this evening the Smithsonian Channel will air a special on the assassination. It was done in conjunction with Showtime.

                    - Ian
                    Rampart, this is Squad 51. How do you read?

                    Comment

                    • jwyblejr
                      galactic yo-yo
                      • Apr 6, 2006
                      • 11147

                      I'm too busy with the Doctor Who 50th Anniversary stuff.

                      Comment

                      • EmergencyIan
                        Museum Paramedic
                        • Aug 31, 2005
                        • 5470

                        Originally posted by jwyblejr
                        I'm too busy with the Doctor Who 50th Anniversary stuff.
                        All right.


                        - Ian
                        Rampart, this is Squad 51. How do you read?

                        Comment

                        • ubermanx
                          Career Member
                          • Jul 3, 2013
                          • 946

                          Evidently this video postulates another theory ...



                          - Marty

                          Comment

                          • samurainoir
                            Eloquent Member
                            • Dec 26, 2006
                            • 18758

                            I just attended a live musical performance of the Cowboy Junkies Kennedy Suite this past weekend at Toronto's Winter Garden. It included some of the best local Canadian musicians, including members of the Broken Social Scene.



                            Last edited by samurainoir; Nov 26, '13, 5:27 PM.
                            My store in the MEGO MALL!

                            BUY THE CAPTAIN CANUCK ACTION FIGURE HERE!

                            Comment

                            • samurainoir
                              Eloquent Member
                              • Dec 26, 2006
                              • 18758

                              My store in the MEGO MALL!

                              BUY THE CAPTAIN CANUCK ACTION FIGURE HERE!

                              Comment

                              • Sideshow Spock
                                valar morghulis
                                • Mar 8, 2005
                                • 2859

                                Yesss, Cowboy Junkies.. takes me back to my dorm room in 1988 and a girl I was in love with..

                                Comment

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