Who Killed Kennedy (JFK)? What say you?

[Brazoo]

My husband is a big JFK assassination buff. (how big? He purchased uncounted hours of CBS broadcast footage from a TV station in Texas from that day, and has forced me to watch it with him...)

Beyond the whole who shot Kennedy thing, the thing we always get hung up on is... how is it that it was not a federal crime to assassinate a president at that time?


Murder was considered a capital crime to be tried by the state, but not the federal government.

That's his argument.

I contend that the assassination of a president counts as treason and since treason carries a death sentence on the federal level, that a presidental assassin would just be tried as such and a murder conviction would be unnecessary, since the outcome would be death anyway.

Jim (my husband) argues that it makes no sense after the Lincoln assassination for murder of a head of state to not be a specific crime. And that since that was the case, the US Government committed a crime by removing the body of Kennedy from Texas, since murder was a state crime.

I insist "treason" covers it and that "treason" supersedes "murder."

Interesting - Online it seems like he was only charged with murdering JFK and Tippit (the cop), but there must have been other charges, no? Like, he still shot the governor in the front seat (he was a governor, right?), and fired a gun in public, etc. I'd think there would be tons more charges, but maybe they were still collecting evidence to lay the other charges?

I wonder what was John Hinckley, Jr. charged with? I see some references online to multiple charges, up to 13 offenses, but I can't see a list of the exact charges anyplace.

[Brazoo]

Surprisingly, according to this article your husband could be right about it being a state crime:

"Only after Kennedy's death was it made a federal crime to murder the President of the United States."

It also mentions:

"The assassinations of Lincoln and Garfield were prosecuted by the federal government because they took place in the District of Columbia."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_federal_government

[piecemaker]

In 1963 the assassination of a President,IF caused by a LONE gunman was only subject to state jurisdiction.
If multiple gunmen,it fell under Federal jurisdiction.
LBJ called the Dallas DA and told him to charge Oswell as the LONE gunman regardless.
There are phone recordings of LBJ talking/insisting that this fell under Texas law.

That being said,yes 'they' did break the law by removing JFK's body from Texas.
The doctor who was to perform the autopsy in Dallas was almost mowed down by the stretcher as they illegally removed JFK's body from the hospital.
The doctor insisted this was a murder in Texas and fell under state jurisidiction,but there was nobody that was going to stop them.

The assassination or attempted harm of a President didn't become a federal offense until 1965.

[Brazoo]

In 1963 the assassination of a President,IF caused by a LONE gunman was only subject to state jurisdiction.
If multiple gunmen,it fell under Federal jurisdiction.
LBJ called the Dallas DA and told him to charge Oswell as the LONE gunman regardless.
There are phone recordings of LBJ talking/insisting that this fell under Texas law.

That being said,yes 'they' did break the law by removing JFK's body from Texas.
The doctor who was to perform the autopsy in Dallas was almost mowed down by the stretcher as they illegally removed JFK's body from the hospital.
The doctor insisted this was a murder in Texas and fell under state jurisidiction,but there was nobody that was going to stop them.

The assassination or attempted harm of a President didn't become a federal offense until 1965.

So, are you of the opinion that LBJ was in on the conspiracy? Because that seems contradictory to me. If he was in on it then it seems to make more sense if he was arguing for the crime to fall under federal law - if he wanted to remove the body, no?

Can you provide a link to the history of that law? I'm just curious. I'm not American and not too great at American history, but I thought several people were charged and convicted - along with Booth. Maybe it's moot, since they were charged federally regardless?

[piecemaker]

If there were multiple shooter think about this;why didn't any of them come forward(or family members if they're no longer around) and try to cash in on being involved?

Theres also a code of silence,code of vendetta,if you talk or they even think you might talk,they kill you,your family.
One suspected JFK gunman was found 'swimming with the fishes' in an oil drum.

[piecemaker]

So, are you of the opinion that LBJ was in on the conspiracy? Because that seems contradictory to me. If he was in on it then it seems to make more sense if he was arguing for the crime to fall under federal law - if he wanted to remove the body, no?

Can you provide a link to the history of that law? I'm just curious. I'm not American and not too great at American history, but I thought several people were charged and convicted - along with Booth. Maybe it's moot, since they were charged federally regardless?

Yes,i believe LBJ was in on the conspiracy.He had more motives than anyone.
They didn't care about the law,they had to take JFK's body from Texas so their 'own' people could perform the autopsy and they could make that fit into their one Lone gunman story.

I dont even remember what Booth was charged with,i thought it was treason but whatever it was it was a death sentence at the time for him and his fellow conspirators.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/14/us/jfk-assassination-5-things/index.html

[piecemaker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiqnU3rbsow

[Brazoo]

Yes,i believe LBJ was in on the conspiracy.He had more motives than anyone.
They didn't care about the law,they had to take JFK's body from Texas so their 'own' people could perform the autopsy and they could make that fit into their one Lone gunman story.

I dont even remember what Booth was charged with,i thought it was treason but whatever it was it was a death sentence at the time for him and his fellow conspirators.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/14/us/jfk...ngs/index.html

I'm still not getting why LBJ would want to insist that the crime was state instead of federal though. It just seems to makes sense to me that if moving JFK's body was a key component of his plan then he would insist for federal control - but maybe I'm missing something.

[Brazoo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiqnU3rbsow

The main argument seems that the person with the most motive for a crime committed the crime - but I don't think that's always the case with crime. I'm not familiar enough with this case to get the whole context of the recording they play part of - and I don't get where it came from.

In any case, I'm not an expert at American history or law, being a foreigner - and I kinda feel like this is all creeping towards the political side of things - which I feel uncomfortable with discussing. So, I'll respectfully bow out.

Thanks for sharing though. I hope you don't take this as personal at all!

[LadyZod]

The main "evidence" in support of multiple shooters has been the following:

1> inability to fire off 3 shots from a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle

2> trajectory of the "magic bullet" vs injuries reported

3> the explosion on the front of Kennedy's face vs the back


All 3 have been proven or disproved if you will, multiple times.



1> many marksmen have been able to fire off 3 shots from a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle in the given timeframe, and some have been able to get up to 6 shots off.

2> the "magic bullet" was not magic. The layout of the car, the positions of the governor vs the president (the governor was sitting sideways at the time of the shot, at a lower level and the president was wearing a back brace that caused his suit jacket to ride higher than normal) all affected the bullet's trajectory and explains the why the bullet wounds don't match the clothing holes.

3> the reason for the massive explosion of Kennedy's face was due to the nature of the shot itself. It did not have to travel through clothing, so nothing slowed it down on exit. Entry wounds are tiny. Exit wounds are huge! I've seen plenty of them in the ER at night.


The Oswald shot has been reproduced using ballistic jelly dummies. (Granted the Oswald shot was a chance happenstance, so in an experiment you must control some elements to check.) They shot at watermelons from the height of the TSBDW, traveling at the speed of the limo using the same rifle. Shooter got off enough shots.

They placed the jelly torso in the same positions as JFK and the governor, and shot at the exact locations the Oswald bullets hit, and guess what? Bullets created the same injuries.

Heck, they even gave the results to a forensic specialist and going by the injury reports alone, he was sure there were multiple shooters until they showed him the footage!

That allows me to throw out the multiple shooter theory. Science says it's possible. Ockham's Razor! ONE SHOOTER.

[piecemaker]

Watch YouTube video,"The Attack in Dealy Plaza" by Robert Harris.I think he makes a very good case for the multiple shooters theory.

[EmergencyIan]

3> the reason for the massive explosion of Kennedy's face was due to the nature of the shot itself. It did not have to travel through clothing, so nothing slowed it down on exit. Entry wounds are tiny. Exit wounds are huge! I've seen plenty of them in the ER at night.

The type of bullet used plays a major factor in the size of an exit wound. The bullets that Oswald fired, this included the "magic" bullet, were full metal jacket rounds. Full metal jacket rounds are made to hold together while moving through the target. Therefore, the exit wound caused by a full metal jacket bullet is most often relatively small when compared to the diameter of the bullet in question. Full metal jacket rounds are used by militaries. The idea is that since the round is designed to hold together it will result in "clean" entrance and exit wounds. As a result, in theory, this should result in less serious injury with the hope that while the soldier will be removed from the battle, he will not die from his injuries.

- Ian

[LadyZod]

The type of bullet used plays a major factor in the size of an exit wound. The bullets that Oswald fired, this included the "magic" bullet, were full metal jacket rounds. Full metal jacket rounds are made to hold together while moving through the target. Therefore, the exit wound caused by a full metal jacket bullet is most often relatively small when compared to the diameter of the bullet in question. Full metal jacket rounds are used by militaries. The idea is that since the round is designed to hold together it will result in "clean" entrance and exit wounds. As a result, in theory, this should result in less serious injury with the hope that while the soldier will be removed from the battle, he will not die from his injuries.

- Ian

True, however the bullet wasn't the only thing coming out of the exit wound. Skull and brain matter too. Also, that bullet deflected due to the skull.

"The HSCA Forensic Pathology Panel did note evidence of a deflection: "The small missile fragment present at the margin of the entrance wound was probably a portion of the missile jacket and indicates that the skull might have slightly deflected the course of the missile and its fragments through the head." (7HSCA176)

Although they believed the bullet that struck the president's head exited as one piece, the HSCA Forensic Panel conceded that evidence of an additional exit defect might exist on one of the bone fragments missing from the president's skull: "Within one or several of these fragments, there might be an additional exit defect if the principal missile had divided into two major fragments within the skull, although in the experience of the members, the estimated size of the principal exit defect is consistent with the size of a single exiting missile representing the mass of the two major fragments recovered outside the body." (7HSCA128)

These two fragments were found in the presidential limousine - a nose portion of a bullet found on the right side of the front seat, and a base portion of a bullet found on the floor next to the right front seat. Whether the bullet striking the president's head broke in two before exiting or upon impact with the interior of the limousine is therefore a matter of conjecture."
Secrets of a Homicide: JFK Assassination © 1995-2008 Dale K. Myers.

And the Magic Bullet refers only to the bullet that went through the neck and hit Connolly, not the bullet that hit JFK in the head. It was "Magic" because of the supposed "impossible" trajectory that was only impossible if you believe the fairy tale Oliver Stone wove, which has done a huge disservice to this topic.

[johnmiic]

Does anyone recall that there was a TV movie that was sort of a What if Oswald got to trial? I t may have starred Lorne Greene. They basically went thru the motions to see what would've held up in court if Oswald were prosecuted.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076841/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_20

The Trial of Lee Harvey Oswald (1977)

The bizarre story behind the man accused of assassinating John F. Kennedy and what might have happened had he been brought to trial.

[LadyZod]

I've got to see that Trial movie. Looks fascinating.

My favorite JFK assassination related film has to be Interview with the Assassin