Shoplifter strangled to death by clerk for stealing...crayons?

[MIB41]

Well here is PROBABLY what is going to be argued -

1) What was the store policy regarding shoplifters? If the store has clear cut policy, this puts them on the hook or takes them off entirely.

2) What transpired AFTER the clerk caught up with the thief? Was this a case of excessive restraint or will the attorney argue when the clerk arrived, he was attacked and it was self defense in the struggle?

3) Was his death a direct result of the attack or did the emergency room do something to complicate the circumstances, like adminstering the wrong medication which would cause his throat to close? Quite plainly - Did they treat him properly when he was brought in?

The criminal side is up in the air, but the civil side is much more predictable. That clerk will probably get his clock cleaned there. Less evidence needed.

[toys2cool]

anyway you put it, the guy was taking cvs items not robbing some at gun point or taking old ladies purse, he should've let the guy go....he took a mans life and he should be held accountable...here in Miami they tell you not to even bother going after someone if they take something from a store, it's not worth you getting hurt over it and the same thing for other person

[Doc]

Absolutely. He was evidently put in a choke hold to subdue his stealing ***. The thief was a victim of his own actions. People in the world need to except responsibility for there actions. His lead to death.

Not saying death by any means is what he deserved, but it was an accidental result of his actions.

Exactly. Personal responsibility. Not enough of that in the world

[huedell]

crayons and toothpaste=death
Everybody who thinks he "got what he deserved" must never have broke any laws in their life. Good for all you who think what happened is "okay". Hypocrisy?
Everybody who has never broke any law, please speak up.
This is a really stupid thread...
The guy who killed the shoplifter was in the wrong.

You're being too reactive. Just like in other threads where
one thinks important legal issues are handled in the reactive,
emotional context
of: "He killed someone over toothpaste! Oh NO! He's wrong!"
or: "Dogs were killed! Oh NO! He's wrong!"

There's SO much more to these stories than your emotions....these
are multi-faceted scenarios we're talking about..in legal contexts...
and in the REAL world. Fantasies, wishes and decisions based on your
emotions need not apply.

[Zemo]

I find it ironic that someone that says don't be "judge, jury and executioner"
already knows the case inside and out including the intent of the guy
who was trying to handle a criminal and how he should be "jailed".

This needs to go to trial.

I agree or maybe a grand jury. Just from the three articles I read on this, and even though they are trying to sway it the thief's way by saying he was strangled to death, which make it look like the clerk had both hands around his neck imo. I doubt, they have enough to prosecute it.

On the face, it looks like the clerk chased the thief down, he of course resisted and he was put in a choke hole that went awry. The thief in no way deserved to die, but an accident happened because of his actions.

Citizens arrests are live and legal in the U.S and as long as they can't prove malice they can't win. Keep in mind that 3 other people jumped to help the clerk, so that tells me the clerk ended up fighting to save himself.

Of course this just from what I read in the 3 articles and just opinion.

[LonnieFisher]

crayons and toothpaste=death
Everybody who thinks he "got what he deserved" must never have broke any laws in their life. Good for all you who think what happened is "okay". Hypocrisy?
Everybody who has never broke any law, please speak up.
This is a really stupid thread...
The guy who killed the shoplifter was in the wrong.

[huedell]

Citizen's arrest is not "judge, jury and executioner"! The killer should be jailed. Petty shoplifting does not constitute death. Shoplifting is not a capital crime, but murder should be. Life should have more value...And the cop that watched should be jailed for letting it happen. If there was an officer present the employee had no reason to still be killing the "suspect".

I find it ironic that someone that says don't be "judge, jury and executioner"
already knows the case inside and out including the intent of the guy
who was trying to handle a criminal and how he should be "jailed".

This needs to go to trial.

[Zemo]

Citizen's arrest is not "judge, jury and executioner"! The killer should be jailed. Petty shoplifting does not constitute death. Shoplifting is not a capital crime, but murder should be. Life should have more value...And the cop that watched should be jailed for letting it happen. If there was an officer present the employee had no reason to still be killing the "suspect".

Shop clerks in Chicago have the same rights as a home owner. He tried to subdue the thief and the thief resisted and struggled to get away, three other men also intervened because he was violently trying to escape. He caused his own death.

People throw around Murder charge like it's nothing, what particular murder charge would you charge the clerk with. lol

[Bill]

I'm all for people getting whatever ending they get when they put themselves in bad situations intentionally; but if you're stealing an item from CVS, and you can fit it into your pants, you're not worth chasing down.
There's no way they can prove intent on this, murder charges ain't gonna happen.

[Mikey]

Am I the only person who thinks of Gomer Pyle whenever I hear or read citizen's arrest ?

[LonnieFisher]

Citizen's arrest is not "judge, jury and executioner"! The killer should be jailed. Petty shoplifting does not constitute death. Shoplifting is not a capital crime, but murder should be. Life should have more value...And the cop that watched should be jailed for letting it happen. If there was an officer present the employee had no reason to still be killing the "suspect".

[MIB41]

Initial dialogue with career inmate...

Inmate: "What'cha doin' time for bub?"

Convicted Clerk: "I killed a man."

Inmate: "Really? Did he do your girl?"

Convicted Clerk: "No..."

Inmate: "Take your money?"

Convicted Clerk: "No..."

Inmate: "Steal your car?"

Convicted Clerk: "No..."

Inmate: "What then?"

Conicted Clerk: "He stole my crayons."

Inmate: "Hey man. If you need ANYTHING, even an extra roll of toilet paper, just let me know. We're cool. "

[mego73]

I wouldn't run to the racism charge so fast.

I would think that the person giving the stranglehold didn't think it would cause lethal damage. I remember Richard Belzer (I think) was injured in a demonstration of a stranglehold a long time ago.

But it's terrible that this happened, even if he was stealing, he didn't deserve to die.

[spamn]

Absolutely. He was evidently put in a choke hold to subdue his stealing ***. The thief was a victim of his own actions. People in the world need to except responsibility for there actions. His lead to death.

People who kill other people should also accept responsibility for their actions, and I don't think the death penalty should be applied to shoplifters - especially without a judge, jury, or lawyers. Nor do I want to be killed for speeding, jaywalking, or not keeping off the grass, especially not by a civillian who's ****ed at me for not obeying the law.

[Mikey]

That's just terrible. And I wonder if he would have been treated that way if he had been white.

I do believe there is a lot of racism out there and it does effect how many people are apprehended, detained and even tried but I don't think that's the case in this particular case.

It seems to me whoever is strong enough and wreckless enough to choke someone to death either by accident or on purpose was probably not concerned with the color of the person he was choking.

From just what I read, I would say the clerk should be charged with involuntary manslaughter rather than murder.

He definitely at least needs to be charged with something.
Whether he beats it or not is up to the jury to decide.