Dark Knight Rises spoilers thread

[madmarva]

^Dixon did yeoman's work on various Bat titles in the 90s and into the 2000s, and I miss his work in the DCU, particularly on the Bat-related books. Really enjoyed his work on Air Boy, too, from the mid-80s. Similarly, Mark Waid, who probably knows more about Superman than anyone, is exiled from DC. Those are two of the key talents I'd want to talk to about writing Superman and Batman, if I were an editor, and DC ostracized or marginalized enough to not want to work for them.

Yeah, the judge's roll really would have been perfect for the Joker, but still worked with Scarecrow.


I know I read No Man's Land, but for whatever reason, it's not memorable — good or bad —*in my thoughts. I knew the film sorta was a cross between it and the Bane storyline. But it's really amazing how much comics material Nolan used/referenced in the three films but still managed to firmly leave his own original stamp on the character. Going in I wasn't sure if I liked him doing a final chapter that truly closed Bruce Wayne's chapter as Batman or Batman in general. I'm so used to Batman just going on and on. But, Nolan really brought his trilogy full circle, tied up everything with a bow. I was thoroughly pleased with this film as closure on his Batman series, although I do think the third movie is the weakest of the three.

Like others, there are aspects — even many aspects — of Nolan's Batman that don't jibe with my personal view of the character. Nolan's Batman is not "The Definitive Batman," to me. Miller's "Dark Night Returns" doesn't fit into my definitive view of Batman, either, but I do recognize it as an interesting version of the character, like the TV Batman, that can be enjoyed within its own context. That's what Nolan's Batman trilogy is to me, an interesting version of perhaps the most durable fictional character created.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Bruce Wayne being so obsessed that he would never retire is something relatively new to the Batman mythos. He retired in imaginary stories throughout the 50s, 60s and 70s, and then of course retired on Earth-Two (although he did return on occasion, including the mission where he lost his life). A retired Bruce Wayne with Selina Kyle is VERY Earth-Two. As you can imagine, I liked that.

All in all, Nolan's Batman is mentally healthier than the character DC has portrayed since Miller came to town. He has spoken of the day when Gotham doesn't need Batman since the first film, so I can't understand why people are surprised by the ending, or his exile at the beginning of the movie.

DC has managed to make Batman rather unheroic over the last several decades, trying to trump Miller's gritty style. I never felt that about Nolan and Bale's Batman. He was conflicted, obsessed, damaged...but his foremost thought was protecting innocent people from crime.

I can't really see where this film was "super heroed" up than the other two, especially Begins, with it's fear toxin and water vaporizer plot, Batman gliding every where on his memory cloth cape, etc. DK dialed back those elements, but they returned here.

My son asked me which of the three films I liked the best. I can't really say. I look at the series as a novel, more so than any other film franchise I have invested in. DK was the juicy chapter in the middle that stands out, but both Begins and DKR were well composed beginnings and endings.

Chris

[The Bat]

Bat,

Did you read my comments? I think I feel the same way you did.

I did...and we agree.

[bleit1701]

I hadn't planned to see the film this weekend but Colorado made me feel defiant somehow and I needed to see it right away.

It was just as emotional and intense as the first two. I agree that there wasn't enough Batman but the story kept the movie moving. So if a Batman movie is light on the main character at least the story was there. I did not see the 'boy' being Talia at all. I did see Blake and a replacement coming. Plus the "Batman can be anyone" line.

So Bruce has is own clean energy reactor? IronBat any one?

Ann Hathaway is great as Catwoman. I also vote for a spinoff.

Oldman, Freeman and Caine all own their roles. They will be hard to replace.

It was good to see William Devane as the President again. How many times has he done that in various projects?

This certainly took Batman out of the shadows- is he real or not. He was even out in the daylight. But I was OK with that.

I wish the Gotham football team had been playing the Metropolis team. It would have been a nice nod.

How did Bane know about the secret armory? Did I miss that?

When they activated the reactor and removed the core they said how many months it would take to go critical.

It was cool to include the Bane breaking? Batman's back moment. It felt a lot like the No Man's Land story line with Gotham being isolated and all.

I had a problem with the police being trapped underground all winter. Seems they would have froze. And they looked a little clean when they came out. If they could communicate with them it seems they could have dug them out or snuck out some man holes or something. It's a big city.

It was a little chilling when they were blowing the bridges and tunnels. In one shot you could see the Freedom Tower in the middle of it all. It's hard to stay in the fantasy when the real world has similar events in it.


And nothing at the end of the credits.









The Superman trailer left me puzzled. Does he grow up on the coast instead of Kansas? There were several gasps when it was revealed as who it was. A lot of people didn't realize a new Superman movie was on the horizon.

[samurainoir]

Come to think of it, Chuck Dixon really does have a great deal of the original source material that they incorporated into the tapestry when you consider how his run on Nightwing had Dick Grayson as a police officer. a comics fan like Goyer would know this when he was cherry picking stuff from the comics to I corporate into the script.

[samurainoir]

Thanks, totally missed that point. Wish the Knightfall storyline with Azreal as Batman only lasted five months, way back when.

I was never a huge fan of knightfall, although I could appreciate that moment Bane broke Batman's back in the film has kind of become hugely iconic, even if I felt the original storyline wasn't really my cup of tea. On the other hand, I do really dig the nod to No Man's Land, which I do think was the one huge Batman crossover that did hold together into a compelling and coherent epic storyline. Hopefully chuck Dixon, Greg Rucka and co got their cheques for that contribution to TDKR.

One really has to speculate, given how they did manage to wrap up so many story lines and character arcs, what the Joker's role might have been in this film had Heath Ledger survived. Maybe a wild card amidst the carnage? Perhaps neutralized by Bane to show how tough he is. I'd suspect much more than the Scarecrow cameo, but obviously less than the main villains Talia and bane.

It just occurred to me that Joker would have made an even better Judge in place of Scarecrow in the kangaroo courts.

[enyawd72]

I saw TDKR today and can't even begin to express my utter disappointment about this movie. I had such faith in Nolan for giving us two GREAT Batman movies...and then to end on this note is such a bummer.
I have always said that Comic Book to movie adaptions have to take a few liberties with story lines in order to tell a coherent story within a 2 or so hour time frame...but as long as the characters "act like themselves"...stay true to the comic counterparts...then I'm fine with it.

This is NOT my Batman! It's like Nolan forgot who Batman really is...and this movie just throws all he did before right out the window. I just can't say anymore about it at this time because I'm just so let down.

I'm now glad Nolan is leaving the franchise...bring on the reboot! Give it to Bruce Tim!

Bat,

Did you read my comments? I think I feel the same way you did.

[madmarva]

Give it to Bruce Tim!

Would really love to see that.

[The Bat]

I saw TDKR today and can't even begin to express my utter disappointment about this movie. I had such faith in Nolan for giving us two GREAT Batman movies...and then to end on this note is such a bummer.
I have always said that Comic Book to movie adaptions have to take a few liberties with story lines in order to tell a coherent story within a 2 or so hour time frame...but as long as the characters "act like themselves"...stay true to the comic counterparts...then I'm fine with it.

This is NOT my Batman! It's like Nolan forgot who Batman really is...and this movie just throws all he did before right out the window. I just can't say anymore about it at this time because I'm just so let down.

I'm now glad Nolan is leaving the franchise...bring on the reboot! Give it to Bruce Tim!

[madmarva]

It was five months, the half-life of the bomb.

Thanks, totally missed that point. Wish the Knightfall storyline with Azreal as Batman only lasted five months, way back when.

[samurainoir]

I think the movie did sacrifice some of the realism Nolan established in the first two films, but my biggest issue with the movie was the time-line. And maybe I just missed it, but how long was Bruce out with his back issue. From watching the prison scenes, I could see a good amount of time passing, but the scenes in Gotham seemed like they were rolling pretty quick.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing, but I'm sure it needed to veer off from that realism a bit to make the ending that much more operatic.

It was five months, the half-life of the bomb.

[phil]

I thought the final scene with Alfred seeing Bruce and Selina together was a perfect ending for the characters.

[madmarva]

Ed, The Superman teaser trailer was very disappointing. Only one scene of Superman flying and he was tini tiny on the big screen. If I had not read about its contents from last week's comic-con coverage, it might have made a better impression on me, but I can't see how anyone would really be excited to see a Superman film from what little was shown in the trailer. I didn't get the kid running around with the cape. Is that supposed to be Clark as a kid? Or was it just filmed for the trailer to invoke childhood memories of playing Superman?

In the end, I don't think the trailer would turn people off like some were by the first Green Lantern trailer. But I don't think it made much of an impact, either.

I'm not going to pass judgment on the film until I see it. Superman Returns taught me that. I was lucky enough to see Singer's teaser reel at Comic-Con the year before Superman Returns came out, and I was so excited for the film. It felt like he got Superman, but then the movie had some nice bits but overall it failed on so many levels.

I agree the chemistry between Bale and Hathaway wasn't great. But Bale was kind of cold fish as Batman. But to me Hathaway really worked well as Catwoman. Loved most of her scenes.

There is no Catwoman like your first Catwoman, particularly if it's Julie Newmar. The Batman TV series is so perfect in what it is. It's not my favorite rendition of Batman and I have to be in the right mood to enjoy its silliness, but there is absolutely nothing about it I would change. So within it's context, I can't imagine anyone else in any of the roles on that show. Although, I wish Boris Karloff and Lon Chaney Jr. had been younger and Bela Lugosi had been alive. I think they would have made excellent guest villains of some sort in the show.

So, no, Hathaway may not be perfectly cast in my mind. I could see Kate Beckinsale or Jessica Biel or a number of other actresses filling the role, but I don't know if they would do it better. Hathaway won me over.

I know a lot of people really enjoyed Michelle Pfeiffer, but I thought she was doing a good Julie Newmar imitation in Batman Returns, but it would seem that's what the script called for.

Yeah, Nolan telegraphed a lot of things in movie — Bane-Talia relationship, Modine's turn at the very end, the auto pilot, even the possible set up for Blake. He had a lot of stories to service, but unlike some movies, I think he tied up all the loose ends, many dating back to the first film. By doing so he may have hurt this film as a singular work, but he certainly did wrap up all his storylines in a pleasing fashion. The conclusion reminded me a bit of Morrison's end to Batman RIP.

I think the movie did sacrifice some of the realism Nolan established in the first two films, but my biggest issue with the movie was the time-line. And maybe I just missed it, but how long was Bruce out with his back issue. From watching the prison scenes, I could see a good amount of time passing, but the scenes in Gotham seemed like they were rolling pretty quick.

But that's just me nitpicking. It was a big fun adventure that I shouldn't think too hard about.

[enyawd72]

I saw it last night and came away with very mixed feelings. When I was leaving the theatre I just felt kind of empty. The film just didn't have any impact on me and I'm not sure why. I felt there were a lot of unnecessary points to the story. Why was Batman away for eight years? Seemed far too lengthy, and no one from Bruce, to Gordon, Alfred or Lucius looked any older than in the previous film.
I did really enjoy Hathaway as Catwoman...she reinvented the character and made it her own. I would actually LOVE to see her in a solo film. FAR less impressed with Bane. The two fight scenes with Bane and Batman were very underwhelming, and then for him to simply be shot by Catwoman made his death very sudden and anti-climactic.
Did not like the ending AT ALL. Bruce faking his death, giving away all his remaining assets and moving to Europe with Selena? WOW, didn't see that coming. It seemed very uncharacteristic of Bruce, and much too final. I would have preferred a more ambiguous ending with Batman still being out there.
Finally, throughout the entire film, I was surprised at how little screentime Batman even has. He's hardly in it. They gave more screentime to John Blake, which just wasn't right IMO. I wanted to see a Batman movie not a John Blake movie.
After the awesome acheivement that was TDK, I feel this last one just had too much to live up to, and failed.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I thought the innocent child could be Talia, but they did a pretty good job of convincing us it was Bane. It was very similar to Bane's origin in the comics.

I would also go see a Levitt/Robin as Batman movie. Fantastic job by him in this. Hard to believe I used to think of him as "The kid from 3rd Rock". Of course Bale was in "Newsies", so...
I would have preferred his real name be Dick Grayson, but Robin works, as he seemed to be a combo of Dick's character, Tim's resourcefulness, and Jason's general backstory.

Bale did his usual great work as Wayne/Batman. I really felt his desperation to save his city. He went through a lot of emotions in this one, and pulled them off well. Haters of his growl will note he did dial it back to Begins levels in this one.

Hathaway had me one over from her first scene in Wayne Manor. She totally owned the role, putting all the whiners and complainers to rest. Great character arc for her. I too would see a Catwoman film with her in it.

Tom Hardy was far more than just a muscle-bound thug, which was great to see. I still had trouble understanding him at some points, but I caught the important stuff. The one downside to IMAX is the deafening score and background noise of the movie does drown out some dialog. Nolan was right about his expressive eyes and mannerisms selling the character. He pulled off a difficult role.

Gary Oldman is one of my favorite parts of these films. Love how a bed-ridden Gordon handled his would-be assassins. He got a great bit at the end, and got to read Dickens! Well done.

Michael Caine got me misty-eyed, I'll admit it. The last scene with him at Wayne Manor really choked me up, despite it taking me some time to momentarily put aside what had happened in the real world the night before. It's a testament to the moviemakers and actors that they could pull us into this world so effectively, despite the unfortunate horror now connected to it.

I found it refreshing that Bruce Wayne got a happy ending. How many versions of Batman can say they did that. Even Denny O'Neil said he hoped one day Bruce would walk off with Talia....well...Selina is just as good, if not better. I was wondering when Alfred looked at the camera and nodded if the movie wasn't just going to end there, without us REALLY knowing what he saw. I too wondered if a darker ending was filmed, but with Nolan, I doubt it. I've always heard he leaves very little on the cutting room floor.

Chris