Wonder Woman...No respect?

[BlackKnight]

This one...

I too have been Pitching that idea around Since I 1st saw her....
She would be perfect,.. suit it almost there,.. needs alittle more here & a little less there.

[Hector]

Megan Fox...

[BlackKnight]

Megan Fox...

Here you go Hector...




Photoshop it...
PUT HER IN THE WW suit...
Bigger belt,.. & WW's on her chest.

[samurainoir]

>Is it possible for Wonder Woman retain that male readership while building up a female audience, or at this point is it better to try and come up with a separate title that perhaps plays up Relationships/Romance

MOST superhero comics have had a really soap-opera-ish romance subplot tacked on, so I don't think this is a big problem. It may seem more prevalent since Wonder Woman is often considered a girl comic; but it's no worse than the old Legion of Superheroes, or X-Men, or Teen Titans....

But perception is everything I guess.

As for keeping a male readership while building up a female one; I'd say, yeah it can be done. (The Japanese have been doing it since the 60's.) But you'd have to deal with the lack of female readers to begin with. Like I said; comics, especially superheroes have typically been a MALE media. Now, there are A LOT of companies publishing Japanese Shojo (girl's) comics, so there MUST be a sizable number of female readers out there.... but I think it'd be tough to get them to try a superhero book. (Kinda like how tough it'd be to get a superhero fan to read a Shojo comic.... perception is everything.)

Don C.

We're not talking about the Comics Market in general, we're talking about a very specific example and a rather unique title, namely Wonder Woman.

It's common knowledge that there is a divide between Shonen titles and Shojo titles in Japan (although there is manga with crossover appeal as well). It's not as if North America hasn't had a rich history of their own "Shojo" (Betty and Veronica, Millie the Model, Little Lulu, Patsy Walker, Wendy the Good Witch etc) comics existing alongside the "Shonen" (Westerns, Sports, Superheroes, Cops and Robbers) up until the early eighties when the direct market "boys club" took over.

If we are using that analogy, the question is whether Wonder Woman should embody the trappings and style of Shojo or Shonen, or should there be two separate titles for each segment of the audience at this point?

I think the only relevance in bringing up the Japanese market would be if you had an example of a Shojo manga title that has existed for three decades before reinventing itself as Shonen manga for three more decades. Then we can engage in the current topic, which is asking if any kind of equilibrium can be achieved for both audiences rather than alienating one or the other. Butt Floss Boobzilla Wonder Woman won't cut it on one end, and it appears that Romantic subplots with Steve Trevor might not on the other end.

I'm simply highlighting the comments around Wonder Woman not needing a romantic angle, and juxtaposing the irony given that she is a character initially designed to appeal to girls, for which the romantic angle seems to be a major component of media aimed towards them (ie Archie, currently the only dominant "Shojo" of American Produced Comics, and lest I point out the insanely huge "Romance" sections of bookstores).

We can bring up Authorial intent, but given how much things can change over seven decades of other authors of other eras adding to the original authorial intent, it's an academic exercise at best given what appeals to an audience in 1940 will differ widely from what appeals to an audience circa 2009. Particularly when the audience transmogrifies itself from little girls to middle aged men.

A team books like X-Men or Teen Titans obviously has a great deal of crossover appeal because the very nature of team books means that there is generally male and female characters for both male and female readers to identify with. Keep in mind both X-Men and Teen Titans were launched into the "boys" marketplace, but given writers with a penchant for strong female characters, they managed to draw in a female audience as well (although still a minority in the Marvel/DC marketplace).

Although we also have the "Xena" or "Buffy" factor to contend with now, and it's something the new live action Wonder Woman film will have to embody to succeed in a mass global market. We have a generation growing up that accepts strong "male characteristics" (ie physical prowess) from their female protagonists. The trade off is the very thing that you often rail against... the predominance of "Beautiful People" in film and television and media. Here's how the crossover appeal works on the most basic level. You can have a strong female lead that the female character identifies with, but she pretty much has to be sexually desirable for the male audience to accept her. After decades of "Character Actors" set against Beautiful Hollywood Starlets, in the post-Feminist world we live in, here is the price of "equality"... it's created a demand to provide the same "eye candy" for a female audience in the same mass wide-spectrum global marketplace.

And lest we digress too much keep in mind that this sex appeal is all about selling everything from gym memberships, hair product, diet books, make-up, designer clothes, and whatever else preys upon the physical insecurities of contemporary men and women when they are inundated with airbrushed perfection from the magazines, billboards, and TV screens that surround us.

Not that those original Wonder Woman comics didn't have a kind of crossover appeal built into them as well. The might have aimed to create a role model for young girls, but given the popularity of the "Bondage Covers" as back issue collectibles, Wertham's own fetishes probably birthed a few generations of Male devotees to that particular "genre".

[samurainoir]

GAH! I just broke me New Years Resolution to stop all that meandering Pontification.

No one should have to put up with that all that blather, and I apologize.

New Topic...
Who should be drawing the Wonder Woman ongoing? Does it make a difference whether it's a female artist or not?

Trina Robbins for example.


Mike Deodato for example.

[BlackKnight]

Don't be taking Mike Deodato off of Dark Avengers...
His Moonstone/ Mrs Marvel Imposter Is Mucho Hot !

BTW,.. I love it when the Word "Fool" is used in a Comicbook.

[ctc]

>We're not talking about the Comics Market in general, we're talking about a very specific example and a rather unique title, namely Wonder Woman.

Well.... kinda. Wonder Woman is a DC propery, and as such brings with it a certain amount of expectation from the established audience. Part of that being how the book fits into the established DC continuity.

And to a certain degree, the current discussion seems to be wether or not WW IS a unique title; or rather, does the book HAVE to be written differently from a regular superhero just 'cos it has a female lead.

>I think the only relevance in bringing up the Japanese market would be if you had an example of a Shojo manga title that has existed for three decades before reinventing itself as Shonen manga for three more decades.

I brought it up as an example of how there is apparently an audience for that sort of thing in N. America now. Trick is, reaching them. I know DC TRIED; but the superhero stigma works both ways: superhero fans won't generally touch something like a Japanese comic, and most Japanese comic fans don't care for American superheroes.

>if any kind of equilibrium can be achieved for both audiences rather than alienating one or the other.

Hmmmm.... I think the trick is finding out who your audience really is; and writing accordingly. For the most part, Marvel, DC and sometimes Image seems determined to cater to the "direct market boys club" (great term!) so the question is kinda moot. Except that you'd really want to bring in a new crowd for a comic like WW, and that's not gonna be easy to do, since the people who'd probably like the book aren't likely to pick up a DC comic without a LOT of persuasion. (Like, say; from a popular big budget movie.)

So due to circumstance you're kinda stuck with "Butt Floss Boobzilla Wonder Woman." (Another great term!)

>Does it make a difference whether it's a female artist or not?

I'd say no; just 'cos I don't think style is inherently gender related. But I DO think the style used should be appropriate for the style of writing. (I always thought Perez did a good job on WW back in the day....)

>Mike Deodato for example.

Holy Liefield Batman! When did Zealot take over as Wonder Woman?

Don C.

[BlackKnight]

When did Zealot take over as Wonder Woman?

Thats Artemis Bud..., & She filled in like around 10 yrs or something ago.

[Riffster]

Artemis has a wedgie

[BlackKnight]

Artemis has a wedgie

No.
She is Flossing .

[Riffster]

God love comic artists

[Werewolf]

Wonder Woman is the only Super Hero I like anymore. I absolutely cringe at the idea of a live action movie. Please, please, please no.

Leave Wondy to animated movies like the recent direct to video one.

[kingdom warrior]

Wonder Woman is the only Super Hero I like anymore. I absolutely cringe at the idea of a live action movie. Please, please, please no.

Leave Wondy to animated movies like the recent direct to video one.

A Live action movie of WW will be huge for WB if handed over to the right Director and script writer and if she is cast perfectly the movie will be a blockbuster and a merchandise winner. It will get done it's a matter of when.

[samurainoir]

Okay, let me try to reframe what I originally was trying to communicate and incorporate Shojo Manga...

If this...


Can exist alongside this...


Why can't this...


exist alongside a big thick Shojo Manga style volume sold at Chapters/Barnes and Nobles/Borders featuring her...

Written and Drawn by Jill Thompson...


One would think this would have been the no-brainer for a much more successful (now defunct) MINX line of comics. I mean do people even know DC tried to launch a line of girl-centric comics? I don't even think I even saw any of the actual volumes before the line came and went.

[kingdom warrior]

I don't see why not.............