Wonder Woman...No respect?

[CaptainTrenchcoat]

Do you think Wonder Woman would get more respect of she had a different outfit? DC has always pushed WW as the 3rd of their trinity with Superman and Batman, yet the sales and her popularity have never really reached them same levels. Could it be her costume, or lack thereof? It looks like she is running around in a bathing suit. Depending on who is drawing her, she may be showing some major cleavage or *** cheek. I know the majority of the market are men but geez, lets get her fully dressed before she kicks Cheetahs butt again. I think it is time for a redesign.

[The Toyroom]

I think a re-write is more in order than a redesign....most people don't know how to write for the Amazing Amazon anymore...

I thought Gail Simone would be gold on the book and bring a much needed female perspective to the character but I haven't been impressed with her run. Her supporting cast has always been sort of lame and her rogues gallery never very intimidating. Simone attempted to give her a Doomsday-like foe in the form of Genocide but I think that bombed.

I think the best runs in the modern era are George Perez' and Phil Jiminez'. All of the other ones have sucked in one way or another.

Part of the recent problem is her current relaunch never quite clicked....plagued with delays with Allan Heinberg and then Jodi Pocault's lackluster arc....doomed from the get-go if you ask me.

[Wee67]

You could really say this about many of the heroines of both the DC and Marvel universes. As much as male readers may enjoy the way super heroines are presented, its hard to take some of their outfits seriously. IT would be nearly impossible to fight in some of those uniforms/bikinis. Not to mention the heels half of them wear.

As for WW specifically, she has had a few more battle-appropriate outfits. Writers have even made her a lot more kick-@#$ over the years. Sometimes they even over-compensate a bit. We've come pretty far, but I do think there are still certain social stereotypes that affect how readers view their heroes, no matter what they wear.

[huedell]

Female superheroes DC or MARVEL don't do really well do they?

As of late Alba's INVISIBLE WOMAN and Garner's ELEKTRA are the only ones
that seem to approach Carter's heyday as WW.

[kingdom warrior]

Wonder Woman gets plenty of respect as an Iconic character. It's bad writing that always hurts the character. When George Perez was on the book I thought it was at it's best. There have been highs and lows over the years since then. Wonder Woman is really about marketing now the name and the Image. I know a lot of women who love the character as she is... and Love Lynda Carter's version of her.

In the past there were attempts to change her costume and it didn't work. It will never work. Alterations are fine. Change it completely? nope it's too Iconic. Plus her image is Licensed every where on everything. Can't really do that.

In comic books I never think in realistic terms because you can't. It's escapism. No one can fly No one dresses in a bat suit. and I don't think about her costume falling off because it won't in comics.

Wait till they do an open casting call for her when they do the movie. Your going to see Thousands of women line up to take a shot at being Cast as her......

[samurainoir]

Which one of these do you respect?











Discuss!

[Captain]

Camel Toe. There, I said it and can now move on.

I liked the Cathie Lee Crosby version as a kid...even if the suit looks like it was made from an Adidas jogging suit.

If they have to change the costume around, it should still reflect her Amazonian heritage. You know, lose the American flag motif, and go with something like Alex Ross' armored WW.

Still....theres something to be said about an attractive woman in a skimpy swimsuit costume fighting crime. AC Comics has been riding that wave for over 20 years with Femforce, so there is a market there.

[johnnystorm]

I think Wonder Woman suffers from a few things, but not the costume. As stated, that costume is iconic and merchandisable. I'd be willing to say that without it, WW would currently be rated in the Aquaman/Hawkman ranks of the DC Universe instead of the "Trinity" (I actually really dislike that term as well). Her merchandising potential has surely kept her in print many times when sales would dictate cancellation.

Firstly, to many people she is simply the female version of Superman. As such, she is expected to act & behave similarly. And by most people, I really mean the general public. Actually, I think she has it worse than Superman. WW is kinda viewed as this almost holy figure, more preacher than warrior. No matter how many battlesuits and Amazon armor they trot out, the pacifist characterization is still the dominant one.

Secondly, I think her entire book is so bogged down in mythology & ancient Greece/Rome that she comes across as boring. Yes, I realize the Amazons are mythological, but it's done to death, over & over.

Third, she has the absolute worst Rogues Gallery. Circe is probably the most interesting, but she's overused. As is any version of Hercules they bring out, Ares, etc. The super-villain branch is teeming with lameness- Angle-Man? Silver Swan? Egg FU?

And lastly, Wonder Woman never breaks the mold of being a "girl's comic" because the writers insist on these romantic subplots with Diana & boyfriend of the month. Every writer brings in a new beau for her, we go through the Diana vs. WW as his interest thing, the hiding of the alter ego stuff. ...boring!

I think the best thing they could do with WW is break from the constant myth-based storylines, steal a couple villains from other heroes, and just do a year or two of super-fights. Maybe put her up against Professor Zoom, or Mr. Freeze, or the new King Tut. Weather Wizard, Chronos, Parasite, or Terra-Man. Even the Riddler ...have her figure out a crime spree of clues!

And some non-Amazon guest-stars would be good. A team-up or two...remember when they revived Animal Man in her title? Or when she fought the Demon? So how about a team-up with Green Lantern or the Flash? Hawkman or the Enchantress from Shadowpact? Lady Blackhawk or the Freedom Fighters?

Lose the romance..how about a year without a boyfriend subplot?

I think my favorite run of Wonder Woman was the era when she was getting her powers back in the early 70s and the JLA members narrated her "tasks" to rejoin. The issue that she fought Chronos stands out to me because it was different. I think they need to treat WW more as a heroine and less as an exercise in epic tales.

And as for those costume photos, Lynda Carter cannot look bad no matter what she wears, I kinda liked the two non-powered era costumes, but the aromor I don't care for (looks like something Hawkgirl donated to a Thanagarian yard sale. The less said about Cathy Lee Crosby's atrocity the better (both the cosume and the movie).

[samurainoir]

She did debut with her butt covered up.


and Perez did put her back into the skirt on occassion


Even the halloween costume now has a skirt.

[The Toyroom]

Female superheroes DC or MARVEL don't do really well do they?

As of late Alba's INVISIBLE WOMAN and Garner's ELEKTRA are the only ones
that seem to approach Carter's heyday as WW.

I don't think they even come close to a 1/10th of Lynda Carter's heyday as Wonder Woman. Show anyone in the general non-comic reading public a picture of Wonder Woman and ask them who they associate with the character and I betcha the majority will say Lynda Carter. I don't see that happening under similar circumstances with Invisible Woman or Elektra. Heck, I betcha the majority don't even know who they are. Their movies did nothing to enhance their status or popularity in regards to the mainstream.
But 30-something years later, we're still talking about Lynda Carter as Wonder Woman.

[The Toyroom]

Firstly, to many people she is simply the female version of Superman. As such, she is expected to act & behave similarly. And by most people, I really mean the general public. Actually, I think she has it worse than Superman. WW is kinda viewed as this almost holy figure, more preacher than warrior. No matter how many battlesuits and Amazon armor they trot out, the pacifist characterization is still the dominant one.

DC doesn't know what they want her to be....under Perez' original vision, she was an ambassador and teacher...Alex Ross and Mark Waid saw fit to use the warrior aspect to counter Superman's wishy-washiness in Kingdom Come. She killed Maxwell Lord in warrior mode....I don't think she would have acted the same way if it occured during the Perez era.

She's a contridiction and DC just doesn't know what to do with her. She is a founding member of the JLA...no she's isn't, she's been replaced retroactively by Black Canary....oh, wait, scratch that, she once again IS a founding member of the JLA.

And out of "The Trinity", I think lately she comes across as the 2nd "most badass" after Batman, with Supes in 3rd (which also says something about Superman lately). Again, during the Perez era, she was probably the most pacifist of the three.

Secondly, I think her entire book is so bogged down in mythology & ancient Greece/Rome that she comes across as boring. Yes, I realize the Amazons are mythological, but it's done to death, over & over.

Agreed, and when they try to update the mythology by giving the gods a modern look, it usually doesn't work (see recent issues)...although I did like when they were appearing in business suits.

Third, she has the absolute worst Rogues Gallery. Circe is probably the most interesting, but she's overused. As is any version of Hercules they bring out, Ares, etc. The super-villain branch is teeming with lameness- Angle-Man? Silver Swan? Egg FU?

Ares is overused IMO. Circe I like....Cheetah needs a few tweaks but is still pretty decent. Doctor Psycho is underrated. If done right, he should be Wonder Woman's Joker. I'd like to see Dr. Light as a reoccuring foe for Diana.
He needs to be badass again after years of being a clown.

And lastly, Wonder Woman never breaks the mold of being a "girl's comic" because the writers insist on these romantic subplots with Diana & boyfriend of the month. Every writer brings in a new beau for her, we go through the Diana vs. WW as his interest thing, the hiding of the alter ego stuff. ...boring!

The whole recent sub-plot with Nemesis as a love interest was soooo stupid and boring. What the hell was Simone thinking? Ugggh!

I think the best thing they could do with WW is break from the constant myth-based storylines, steal a couple villains from other heroes, and just do a year or two of super-fights. Maybe put her up against Professor Zoom, or Mr. Freeze, or the new King Tut. Weather Wizard, Chronos, Parasite, or Terra-Man. Even the Riddler ...have her figure out a crime spree of clues!

Remember during the Deodato run when she went up against Poison Ivy and Cheetah? Awesome!

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

I think there are a few factors at work too:

-Superheroes have typically been 14 year old MALE power fantasies, and no matter how far they've come, there's still a lot of that mentality at their core. So nobody; writer, artist or fan, seems to know what to do with a female lead. Do we make her a serious character, or fan service?

-Wonder Woman hasn't had a major media tie-in for decades. I think part of the appeal of guys like Batman and Superman is that they're EVERYWHERE! Source amnesia alone pretty much ensures a following.

-Compared to most superheroes, Wonder Woman has a pretty complicated history: all of 'em! (I think only Wolverine competes for convoluted, reorg'd back story.) So it's tough to know which one to follow, where to take it, and how to fit it into whatever's currently trendy.

Don C.

[johnnystorm]

Well, I think WW has a pretty straightforward story. She's an Amazon princess sent to help out in Man's world. Her mother is the Queen, she was granted abilities by the gods as a gift at birth. She is the supreme physical peak of the Amazon race. Doesn't need a whole lot more, but the constant embellishment by meddling writers that think they need to add more to it has screwed things up. They've done the same to Superman as well...his origin needed nothing added to it that wasn't covered in the opening sequence to the George Reeves television series, and yet look at what a mess they've created- numerous times.

I agree on the media aspect of Wonder Woman. Sadly, for a media conglomerate, Warner is pathetically lacking in exploiting their properties. The DC movie franchises are pitiful compared to what Marvel has put out, and yet DC arguably has the bigger character recognition with the general public. I was amused however to see ads for the Wonder Woman dvd movie running on the back cover of all the Marvel Comics a few months ago. Nice job there, advertising division!

Again I say, forget all the female lead crap. Jettison the starry-eyed romance. Just tell a super-hero story, WW vs. a villain, slam bang action , let 'er rip!

[huedell]

The point you guys have been making about
her background being muddled is dead on I think.

I think that's also why CAP A and AQUAMAN have had a hard time getting
to the screen recently despite their popularity.

I think that the recent DC ANIMATED WONDER WOMAN movie was awesome.

I'm kinda bummed it had to happen like that.

Why couldn't they have made THAT into a live-action movie?

[huedell]

Ya know Toyroom...you said "...with Supes in 3rd (which also says something
about Superman lately). " as far as the "badass" quality...isn't that how it
SHOULD be? Batman and WW have to be the tough guys, so Supes
can remain the most powerful, but the most innocent.

Yeah, this is kind of a threadjack for Supes sake---so I'll add in the fact that I don't think WW should be portrayed in ANY OTHER WAY
except as a badass warrior.

To me, WW is "I am woman hear me roar" or nothing.