I finally seen The Black Knight yesterday.

[Hector]

LOL!!!! I was going to write that and i said i bet Hector says this!!! LOL!!!!!

You know me too well.

[thunderbolt]

Oh Jesus...look at what you did now.

And I just knew Superman III would come into play eventually.

[huedell]

And I just knew Superman III would come into play eventually.

I gotta cite it when it comes to making decent superhero movies---
Lord knows no one else will.

[thunderbolt]

^^I can assure you that I won't

[ctc]

>Batman no matter what you do will always be a comedy.

Personal taste is ALWAYS a part of any entertainment, and that can be shaped by experience, knowledge, etc. I kind of agree with this statement; but I'll readily admit I don't really like Batman. My childhood was shaped by European sci-fi comics and 70's action films, so Batman; no matter how serious, doesn't ring true.

But years ago, when I worked at the comic shop, I kinda came to accept that there IS a place for superheroes. I think seeing them as an adult affects my observations: I don't have the nostalgia a lot of other folks do, so I don't take a lot of the genre for granted. And one of the things I've noticed is that superheroes are at their best when they're over the top. Not neccessarily gonzo-insane; but the best stories have been about subject matter WAY beyond the norm. (For instance, in real life radiation just kills you.) But it works for a superhero story 'cos there are already a lot of cues that distance the genre from the real. That's one reason the costumes are important: silly outfits are a convention of the genre. It's what lets you know you're reading about a superhero and not just some weird sci-fi story. The powers are another. Even Batman has powers of a sort: insanely indominable will, incredible intelligence, and one might say a dash of dumb luck.

And that's fine. It's not a shot at the super, it's not an indication of a neccessarily inferior genre; it's how it works. But a good superhero story works under it's own rules. That's where the internal consistency thing comes in. If character X can lift a bus one issue he should be able to do so again. It's how well the author works within those parameters and deals with the permutations that dictates the quality of the story.

Don C.

[huedell]

I love Don's thoughtful posts in general...but in this thread, I think his posts
are really keeping the debate grounded. Good last post there Don ^^^.

As far as what Mike said about Batman always being a comedy and Don's
reply that it all comes from personal opinion....well, I take heroism
and heroes, the fight of good vs. evil pretty seriously....and therfore
I'm not always "looking down" at superhero movies as if they are just
"spoofs of life"...well, you might as well say LIFE is a spoof then
or ALL MOVIES are spoofs---
but, to try to get something out of it...I try to take both the serious
and funny at the same time. All good movies should have both IMO.

For some reason superhero movies never turn out as great I'd like them to.

As I said (or at least implied) in my last post...superhero movies don't
even seem to measure up to the Dini/Timm animated stuff.
I think that's because it's easier to smooth over some rough inconsistencies
in an animated projeect than it is in a live-action movie. Well, whatever
the reason...it's a shame.

[The Bat]

One concept that "the Dark Knight" borrowed from the Comics(The Killing Joke), that I thought they really put across well was...that the Joker believes that "just like Him', eveyone is just one bad Day away from losing it, going insane, and abandoning Their moral code. The Joker is trying to see if Batman will do the only logical thing...and KILL HIM! But He fails with Batman, and the People on the two Ferry Boats...but does however succeed with Havery Dent.

All in all...an extremely well told story! I couldn't be happier that, "My BATMAN" is in GREAT Hands!

[ctc]

>For some reason superhero movies never turn out as great I'd like them to.

There's a certain type of cognitive set that goes along with cartoony stuff vs real life stuff. Essentially, your brain is more forgiving of a comic book than reality, 'cos as soon as it percieves something looking real it has a whole new set of expectations. When you rrad a comic your brain fills in a lot more of the details, and when you see said comic translated into reality INEVITABLY some of them details are gonna be different. That's probably why it's so tough to go from one to the other.

One of the reasons I never drew realisticly is 'cos you can do more with a cartoon than real life. 'Course it can be a harder sell for the audience, but there's ways around that too.

>I take heroism and heroes, the fight of good vs. evil pretty seriously....and therfore
I'm not always "looking down" at superhero movies as if they are just "spoofs of life"...

That's a decent way of looking at it. Superheroes as a genre run strongly into fantasy; and as such have a lot of things that differentiate them from reality. The bigger than life thing is a BIG part of the genre, and you'll either feel it, or not.

It's all in how you sell the ideas. Most of the greatest ideas in entertainment are inherently silly. "They're like giant salt shakers.... with guns!!!!" But you sell it right, and you get one of the greatest things ever.

Don C.