My letter to Hasbro...a toy rant.

[Toy Timelord]

Was at TRU today, and they had the new MU figures. Blew me away that they took a gamble on Grim Reaper.

Now, I LOVE Grim Reaper. Ever since I got his trading card in Impel's second series of Marvel Universe trading cards. But when was he last relevant? I know he was a bit player in Civil War, but has he done anything relevant since?

Cool costume, but I just don't think he's gonna sell well. I bought him, because it was the perfect figure for me, but what kid is gonna know who he is, and what adult is gonna care?

Bold move by Hasbro, I'll give 'em that. But he is short packed.

[Toy Timelord]

I'm not gonna get into a discussion about hollywood whitewashing, except to say it happens more than the opposite. We have reached a peaceful balance in this thread, and I intend to keep it.

That said, I thought Ms. Marvel was vacant? Carol Danvers had graduated to Captain Marvel. Nobody seemed to have an issue with it.

Your mileage may vary, but I have never had a problem with alt universe changes in the script (The movies and Ultimate universe are alt universes, same as 2099), I like having my expectations turned on ear from time to time.

Though I can definitely understand one's reservations regarding those changes creeping into regular continuity, and while some of it may feel like diversity for diversity's sake, it CAN happen organically.

Choosing established titles and roles, instead of forging new ones is also often a safer bet. Steel never really took off, though he could've been DC's Iron Man. But Jaime Reyes (despite any reservations about Ted Kord, who I still love) has proven successful, and a great character.

Likewise, I LOVE the new Nova, but Richard Rider is coming back. Not sure how long Sam can last, but I'll enjoy it so long as he does.

Cyborg, an original creation who has been around since the 80s, and Falcon, who's almost a decade older, are only NOW getting the exposure they deserved all along. Both had early Merch (Falcon had a Mego, which was great, and also a Secret Wars figure, and Cyborg had a Super Powers figure, but it was a late, and thus rare addition to the line). War Machine has fared much better, but it still took a decade and a half for him.

Dwayne is right though. Classics are classic for a reason. A big issue with that, however, is that so many classic characters are white, because they come from a time when representation didn't happen. Kids want to see themselves in the characters they love. That is why a Black Spider-Man matters. If it were Black Panther who is not as high profile as Spider Man, it would not be equal or matter as much.

What one person may look upon as a PC push, some child may look upon as legitimization, as an example that not only white kids can dream of being as important as Spider Man.

I love the diversification. I don't mind new characters taking familiar names. I take issue with a character such as Alan Scott being gay (Though I have no issue with gay characters) and I would take issue with Lois Lane being turned Hispanic.

But if that were to occur in an 'alternate' universe, such as TV, Movies, or the Ultimate Universe? I'm okay with it.

^No hard feelings Timelord.

Absolutely none taken, and no hard feelings in return. I understand and respect your opinion.

[Gorn Captain]

Interesting point about changing characters, especially race and gender. I never really understood why that happens. As is a writer couldn't possibly invent a new character that was black and female, for example.
I think Jackson does a decent Nick Fury, but I never understood why this happened, unless of course it's "we need a black guy in there".

I think I'm possibly the wrong guy to join this talk, because I have stopped reading new comics. After 40 years of loyal readership, I felt "Been there, done that". I no longer enjoy the style of art and writing of modern comics. That is why these characters are new to me, and I have no affinity for them. I am glad that there are more ethnic characters, but I hope that older ones also get their chance to shine again.

[enyawd72]

^No hard feelings Timelord. Believe me, I have no problem with ethnic characters. What I have a problem with is what I feel are token characters like Kamala Khan and Miles Morales. We already have a Ms. Marvel and a Spider-Man. Heck we have three or four Spider-Men if you count 2099 and all that clone crap. My point is, instead of reassigning an established character to try and make headlines, come up with something NEW.

Marvel didn't need to do what they did here...they're already diverse. Back when the only minority character at DC was Cyborg, Marvel had the Falcon, Power Man, Black Panther, Storm, Jim Rhodes, Sunfire, Warpath, Thunderbird, White Tiger, etc. All great heroic characters...and all ORIGINAL.

Back then, Marvel actually took risks...they weren't afraid to create original minority characters and let them stand on their own merits, and they ALL succeeded. Nowadays, they're too afraid to take that chance so they reassign established characters and hope the public accepts them.

All this race swapping started with Ultimate Nick Fury which, although successful, was a mistake IMO. It fundamentally changed the character, although Marvel has tried to retcon it since by making him Nick Fury Jr.
Since then there have been five white Marvel characters made black in film. Kingpin, Alicia Masters, Nick Fury, Electro, and most recently the Human Torch.
Anybody who doesn't agree with this casting is labeled a racist, which I find absolutely absurd and completely one sided, because no one could recast Jim Rhodes or the Falcon as white without facing a huge media backlash, even though there is absolutely nothing inherent to either of their characters which requires them to be black.

It's all just a sad product of this PC world we live in.

[Toy Timelord]

Well said, I agree. There should be room for old and new characters.

Agreed.

But it makes sense that a lot of us here go for the more classic characters. Mego collectors are usually older fans, so logically we'll prefer older characters, the ones we grew up with. I'm that kind of collector. All you need to give me is Mego-style Classic X-men, and I'll be happy for years to come.

And that's fine. But bashing characters (and for my part in that, I apologize) doesn't make you look good in the eyes of those characters' fans, and most characters have fans. Many thousands of them, in fact.

There's nothing wrong with some lighthearted ribbing, now and then (Which is what enyawd72 was doing above, which is cool) but there's a difference between ribbing, and being vicious for viciousness sake. The fans of ethnic characters do not view them as tokens, or space fillers. They are important, and them taking up mantles of established heroes legitimizes them. Nobody says you have to like them, or buy their books, but marginalizing them is exactly why they matter in the first place.

I think we both let our passions run a little hot, and it overtook our senses (at least that's my experience, I can't speak for Dwayne), but cooler heads seem to have prevailed, and I hope Dwayne eventually gets his Beetle, and classic GOTG. I'd probably buy Yondu myself.

And I want Gladiator's kid as much as I want Quire!

[Toy Timelord]

Quentin Quire is a telepathic Eminem with pink hair. Personally, I'll take that sixth figure of the Beetle.

He's actually a lot more complex than that. That pic is misleading, he is nothing like Eminem. He doesn't even look like him, as Quentin usually wears glasses, and has longer hair.

He's a kid who means well, but has a rebellious streak in him. The good X-Men want him on the straight and narrow, but he's a natural rebel and contrarian (probably why I like him so much), and has caused as much trouble as he's done good. He's got more in common with Magneto than Charles, but he truly wants to do good, deep down.

But he's been the star of two volumes of Wolverine and the X-Men (great book, highly recommended) even though Wolverine gets the headline.

I'm not saying 'Don't do the Beetle', I'm saying 'Don't do the Beetle, but neglect Quire'. Do both, then we're both happy.

[Gorn Captain]

Dwayne, I sincerely hope your opinion on the line changes and you begin to find more of what you want. It's never fun when the things we love are so hard to find that we don't love them anymore, but taking your frustrations out on fellow fans (and I apologize for doing the same) is no way to vent that anger.

Well said, I agree. There should be room for old and new characters.
But it makes sense that a lot of us here go for the more classic characters. Mego collectors are usually older fans, so logically we'll prefer older characters, the ones we grew up with. I'm that kind of collector. All you need to give me is Mego-style Classic X-men, and I'll be happy for years to come.

[enyawd72]

I must be totally out of touch (or delusional ), but I have no idea who these characters are...

Quentin Quire is a telepathic Eminem with pink hair. Personally, I'll take that sixth figure of the Beetle.

[Toy Timelord]

Dwayne, I sincerely hope your opinion on the line changes and you begin to find more of what you want. It's never fun when the things we love are so hard to find that we don't love them anymore, but taking your frustrations out on fellow fans (and I apologize for doing the same) is no way to vent that anger.

[Toy Timelord]

Yeah, I also would have loved to see comic versions of the original GotG...Starhawk, Vance Astro, Martinex, Charlie 27 and Yondu in ANY size.

But who else? How long have 'classic' figures like Gladiator, Cloak and Dagger clogged pegs? I'm a long time comics fan and only know two of those figures. One of them (Gladiator) got a figure, and you're welcome to drop by my Target and buy all 28 of them, because we haven't gotten anything new since, unfortunately.

Certain characters will always move more units. We can both name plenty of new and classic characters that would move, and we both could name modern and classic figures that (despite the fact that WE love them,) would linger. Just because it's classic, doesn't make it better, by that same token, just because its new and relevant doesn't mean it always will be.

But like it or not, Kamala and Miles will be in comics, animation, toys and movies, for years to come. You might not like it, but setting up a checklist of 'milestones' a new character must meet for your approval is petty, and childish. Especially when those standards are applied only to ethnic characters. I know you're not that kind of person.

I don't hate classic figures, or characters. i hate classic figures at the expense of characters who are relevant. While you're waiting for them to release the sixth figure of The Beetle, I 'm still waiting for the FIRST of my favorite X-Men, and Avengers. I think a proper balance can be struck to please the most fans, but at the moment, it seems neither of our needs are being met adequately.

And it certainly won't be because either of us hated on each other's preferences, so I suggest we peacefully agree to disagree.

[Toy Timelord]

Classic fans don't read comics, as much as current fans. Sure there's overlap, but they want to move stories, and characters forward to reflect the changing demographic. If they didn't, DC wouldn't have needed to reboot.

Kamala's book has gone into seven printings, she matters.

As for characters being tossed into existing names? That is a classic strawman argument.

Otherwise, Hal Jordan, Barry Allen....would be total flops, that Nobody's ever heard of........

Miles is a hit, and a fan favorite, who continues to gain exposure and fans. I'm not saying you have to love him, but your dismissal of what he means is borne of a lack of understanding. He's a great character, not some 'token'.

It's okay to be a classic fan, but the comics and merch will move forward. Please try not to talk down about it. Love your favorites, and let me love mine.

[CAZAFANTASMA]

Same thing happened with the ghostbusters line, the marketing dude posted a video saying they where going to do an Ecto for the 6 inch line, IF they made a presale.... asking like $200 for a plastic toy which they only had a cardboard printout of the actual scale vehicle. Ofcourse they didn't reach their pre-sale order estimate, so they said they where going to "cancel the line due to lack of interest from the fan base!" ***. Months later they released the ghostbusters with removable protonpacks, which are the same figures we got before, same molds same body, only with the packs which we should have gotten on the first place..... Mattel sucks in their marketing plans and strategies.
I agree with your rant!

[EmergencyIan]

I must be totally out of touch (or delusional ), but I have no idea who these characters are...

I'm the same way or likely much worse. Once you get past the "main" DC and Marvel characters, I'm have no familiarity with them. I grew up knowing of Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Captain America, The Hulk, Wonder Woman and any other heroes on "The Super Friends" or who were most popular at the time. That's pretty much who I stick with to this day.

- Ian

[Gorn Captain]

If you think characters like Kamala Khan or Miles Morales are going away you're delusional.

But I was referring specifically to Quentin Quire.

I must be totally out of touch (or delusional ), but I have no idea who these characters are...

[enyawd72]

Hasbro seems to be following completely different strategies from what I saw when I worked there 7 years ago, I think they changed leadership around that time as well. It almost seems as though their way of thinking is a bit to "compartmentalized", and they are missing the bigger picture in some cases. I would have liked to have seen the Guardians of the Galaxy toys in the same 3 3/4" format as Star Wars, seems like a missed opportunity for cross-over play between the two lines for kids.

Yeah, I also would have loved to see comic versions of the original GotG...Starhawk, Vance Astro, Martinex, Charlie 27 and Yondu in ANY size.