KISS new album?

[EmergencyIan]

I've always liked KISS quite a bit. And, I love that KISS/Tom Snyder interview!! Hilarious!


- Ian

[nvmbrsdoom5]

This is a discussion that always causes controversy and arguements, LOL. I should stay away, but I just can't hehe

Tommy and Eric S. are fantastic players, they do the songs and everything the justice they deserve. As for wearing the spaceman/catman makeup, it doesn't bother me one iota. Do I fool myself into thinking this is "just as good as" the original from circa 1976? No, of course not. But for me, if KISS didn't exist anymore I would probably still be going out to clubs and watching tribute bands putting on the makeup and doing the show anyhow. This is like the best of both worlds, in a way, where we still get to see Gene and Paul, and we still get the huge pro show and everything, but it's just become more like a tribute show as well. For all of us who would've been accepting with another new "character" added for Tommy or Eric, there's a ton of fans who wouldn't accept that, and want to see those four characters onstage.

The sad truth is that Ace and Peter can't perform up to the same standards today as they once did, and they're just not that interested in doing it anymore. When I saw KISS on the "Farewell" tour in 2000, both Ace and Peter performed really badly, in my opinion. I was glad to see the band ending it all. When I saw them again a few years later, with Tommy and Eric, they sounded 100 times better, the energy was back, and they even pulled out some obscure songs I'd always wanted to hear them play live.

I think people who are wishing for KISS to be what they were in 1978 will never accept this current incarnation. I go see them for the nostalgia, to see a big fun show and hear some songs I like. Ace Frehley is one of my biggest musical heroes, but I don't want to see him up there wearing the makeup, slopping through his parts, and knowing that he really is just collecting a paycheck and pretty much hating every minute of it. I saw him recently on his solo tour, and while his band were solid and there were a few highlights, overall Ace was pretty rough, to put it lightly. I respect that many disagree with me on this point, but really I'd rather see someone like Tommy or somebody else who grew up loving and respecting Ace, doing a great tribute act to him, than seeing Ace up there kinda destroying his legacy by putting on a half-hearted, sloppy performance.

As for a new KISS record.....well, I'm interested in hearing it, but I could really take it or leave it. If it's really good then that's a pleasant surprise, but I'm not counting on it. As I said, for me the enjoyment I get from KISS now is as a nostalgia act, a tribute show to their legend and so forth.

[livingdead70]

Well let me say I definalty wasnt trying to start an arguement!!!!
The only real problem I have with the new guys ( they are great players and in some ways do better than Ace and Peter) is them dressing like Ace and Peter, they should get some new images is all Im saying.
As far as Kiss making a new album, I feel its pointless, they outta just kept the live show going. I personly feel they should have called it a day in the 80s ( I mean come on, songs like Bang Bang You?) .
But to each his own, I was just curious as to some other folks feeling on this matter!!!!!!
trey

[nvmbrsdoom5]

I wouldn't have been totally opposed to them having new character images for Tommy and Eric. But Gene and Paul feel that too many people would be turned off and would want to come and see those original four characters, even if it's not the original four people portraying them. It's almost as if KISS were being handled like it's a Broadway show, where you have different people coming in and out but the characters remain. It's certainly an unorthodox concept for a rock band and it obviously doesn't sit well with alot of people. But it's an interesting concept nonetheless, and certainly leaves it open to the band and their music being able to carry on and entertain future generations who might enjoy the music and spectacle but never even knew the originals! I can see both sides of the arguement on this matter, really. I think what really impressed upon Gene & Paul was how popular the various KISS tribute bands were getting during the 1990s. People were paying good money to see local bands dressing up as them, putting on shows with 1/100th the amount of spectacle, in small venues, etc. Rather than just retiring completely and watching all the tribute bands take over and make all the $$$, they figured they could combine the best of both worlds. It does kinda make sense, when you think about it. Like I said before, anyone who can't hang with the "Broadway KISS" concept they're pursuing now is probably best left to watching old videos and listening to the old stuff and appreciating it for what it once was. There's certainly nothing wrong with that either.

[MIB41]

Okay here's where I have to throw in my two cents since I've been a huge fan of Kiss since Alive came out in '75. And yes, I will admit before I gave their music a chance, Simmons kind of creeped me out when I first saw him. He was a scary vision for the conservative crowds of the mid 70's. But here's the truth about the studio as perhaps many of you are not aware. First I want to address Livingdead70's concerns about the absence of Ace and Peter in the studio for this new outing. I'll handle that by asking a simple question - Remember the Classic Destroyer Album? I'm assuming you would venture to say that's "Classic" Kiss. Paul on rhythm, Gene on Bass, Peter on drums, and Ace on lead, right? Wrong. Guitarist Dick Wagoner played all Lead guitar on Sweet Pain, even acoustic on Beth. Remember God of Thunder? Gene's defining song? He didn't even write that, Paul Stanley did. And that signature "ace" solo in the middle of Detroit Rock City? That was Paul Stanley. And many consider Dynasty to be the last complete Kiss album from a studio perspective. Who played drums? Peter? Nope. Anton Fig. Who's that? He's David Letterman's drummer. Those are but a few facts and I've provided you with a link to many more below. Most I have gathered from books and Kiss' own accounting, but this website is pretty handy (still doesn't cover them all). So, if your worried about the validity of a new KISS album without Ace and Peter then I would dare say you would have never purchased any of those CDs after listening to that Kiss cover band had you been aware.

Believe me it's disheartening to find out the classic albums that we, the fans, believed were pure band collaboration were anything but. However, that's often true of most bands, but it doesn't mean you can't still have a great album. The truth is the core of most of Kiss' best songs were written by Paul and Gene so I believe this new one will be a blast. If that doesn't get you curious then consider this - They are going to have an album cover made like the classic albums Love Gun and Destroyer where they are depicted in an oil painting...PLUS they will have all new costumes. I think it's great. Paul and Gene are still there and Tommy and Eric are great musicians. Have faith. You might get your socks blown off. Here's the link for more classic busting moments...

http://www.dogpile.com/clickserver/_iceUrlFlag=1?rawURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kissfaq.com% 2Freference%2Fsong_who.html&0=&1=0&4=67.63.50.146& 5=96.28.35.24&9=4c5ddf89db224e01836cf7276cb6c901&1 0=1&11=info.dogpl&13=search&14=239138&15=main-title&17=2&18=2&19=0&20=0&21=2&22=nxmNmAHP8Bc%3D&2 3=0&40=Zl%2B7rXiPbEL25BSimAA%2BXw%3D%3D&_IceUrl=tr ue

[EMCE Hammer]

Mr MIB and Mr Doom put it perfectly. If the new CD just has one song that rocks like Domino I'll be happy. Have any of you guys heard Gene's kid? He can sound just like him. If Gene and Paul kicked the bucket right now, Junior could step in for Gene, Cher could be Paul, and a couple of good studio guys could play Ace & Peter.

[bgrimm77]

O.K. Easy with the ACE DEFENSE!!! Ace was and is the man...the question posed was whether or not he and Peter were considered true members of the band by Paul and Gene or hired hands...Let's also take into consideration the sad humor that is the fact when they made their movie "Phantom of the Park" Ace was played by an afro-american male in make-up! I love Kiss and alway's have , but like I mentioned in the Dr. Pepper thread...it's time to wrap it up. Damn...I've seem them on all 3 of their last farewell tours! They have enough money....time to let it go and be grumpy old men !!!

[Cosmicman]

I was very impressed with Gene and Paul's solo CDs from a couple of years ago, "Live To Win" and "******". If they make another KISS album, I hope they rock and keep up to the KISS expectations.
KISS really is Gene and Paul. If you read a lot of the books that came out. Peter and Ace are a couple of asshats that were usually too whacked out of their brains to play on the original albums. Studio musicians like Bob Kulick and Anton Fig usually played their parts for them on the albums (except the songs where they sang like Shock Me, Baby Driver, Beth...etc)
They kept that a big secret for a long time and it finally came out in the early 2000s. Sorta let the wind out of my sails about Ace and Peter. :(
For KISS to make another CD (the first in almost a decade) would be all right with me. KISS is KISS. Gene and Paul are really KISS. No matter who is on lead guitar and drums. Except this time, they just found guys to wear the makeup legally.

[MIB41]

Wrath is calling it right. And the reason why their not changing makeups for the other two is because, from a marketing perspective, the image of KISS is those four personas. They didn't have legal rights back in the 80's but got them from Ace and Peter when they came back to the band for the reunion tour in '96. Honestly if anyone has problems with that they should blame Ace and Peter, because they allowed that to happen. They sold their rights. It makes good business sense to keep the image consistant. That's the market expectation and that's why Paul and Gene are as accomplished as they have been.

[nvmbrsdoom5]

Yep, I knew about all of those factoids too, MIB41. Being that the music biz is my profession, none of that really surprises me either. There's very few bands who actually write and perform 100% of the material on their albums.
While Gene's last solo album was a dud of tremendous proportions, I felt that Paul's solo cd "Live To Win" was very promising. Perhaps with the right producer and maybe some input from Tommy and Eric, they can do a new cd that's worthy of them. I'd had high hopes for "Psycho Circus" and unfortunately felt very let down afterwards, so I'm just a bit wary. But I understand how the business works, and know that even for legendary bands like KISS, it's easier to get support from media outlets, their record label, and promoters for a new tour when they have an actual new product to support. They already did the "Alive 35th anniversary" tour last year, so they have to come up with something else to be the motivation to tour and whatnot.

[nvmbrsdoom5]

I don't think KISS will ever hang it up totally. Gene and Paul will, of course, but they'll find replacements. Of course it won't be the same for many of us, we'll never accept it in the same way as we did the "real thing". But future generations will get a chance to enjoy the show and the music and maybe find it to be good fun. Not long ago, a buddy of mine who is a KISS fanatic took his young 6 year old son to see a KISS tribute band who were playing at an outdoor festival that was all ages. The kid was SO excited, he loved every second of it, being familiar with the music already due to his daddy always listening to it. That kid didn't know the difference between it being a tribute band and the real original thing. He enjoyed seeing those characters, and hearing those songs, and the whole spectacle of it. And that I believe is what Gene & Paul are pretty much banking on now, that whole concept behind carrying on.

[MIB41]

Every since that has been discussed publicly, I have had some problems believing it would work. I think a different KISS minus Paul and Gene are far harder to sell to the masses than some might think. Sure a cover band can fill a night club because that is a great attraction. But when you start talking about filling stadiums, your in an entirely different ballgame. Sure people want the show, but they also are coming to see Paul and Gene the people. They want to say they got to see Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons... Not "Star Child" and the "Demon" (most of which don't know them by that name anyway). Then you have to look at the business side of it. Paul and Gene will still run the show, so they will want the bulk of the money. How long will you keep any performer on a salary to be frontman for a professionally run cover band which is selling merchandise and records, but you see little to none of those profits? That's a revolving door for many musicians which will tire fans quickly.

[nvmbrsdoom5]

You're right to a large degree. I don't think it'll pack stadiums and stuff, no. I think it'll be bigger than your local rock club/bar, though. And while Gene & Paul might make a large chunk of the profit from owning the idea, I don't think the hired performers will be making peanuts either, trust me there'll be benefits from being a part of that.

I think that idea will never really fly with the public as long as those guys are still able to perform themselves. But we'll see.

[livingdead70]

MIB41,
I was well aware of those factiods too. Also most of Kiss Alive 2 was recorded in soundchecks and the crowd put in later.
Its just not the same with Peter and Ace i reckon,,,,,,,,,,,
Some people have bagged on Aces playing tho and I think he is still a pretty good guitar player, shoot he inlfuenced pretty much everyone into metal/hardedge guitar these days. Ive seen him solo recently and he was fine.
Peter alot of people dont realize is what, 63 now. I think he was just ready to retire......... cant say I blame him. And from what I can tell Gene and Paul are a couple of real Toolbags so I cant blame Ace for gettin outta there too.
trey

[nvmbrsdoom5]

Well I don't wanna spoil anybody's image of anyone but let's just say from what I've heard from people who know these cats.....Ace and Peter are a couple of "real toolbags" too, haha. It always gets put out there that "Ace and Peter were the cool ones and Gene and Paul were the greedy rock stars" and I don't think that's fair to say at all. Though I think anyone could agree that Gene is definitely the greediest of them all (even he'd probably agree on that one )