J.J. Talks Trek Sequel-Shatner & Khan?

[Gorn Captain]

Ask any klingon kirk was a warrior he deserved better than death by ladder.

With all this talk about that ladder, I just cannot this image out of my mind: Kirk falling down the ladder, Homer Simpson style.

D'oh!
D'oh....d'oh..d'oh!!!!
D'oh!

[fallensaviour]

Line for line I KNEW that was your point---
I basically pictured the same kind of Kirk death you described
as preferred.

and I know, I know you're not a "mind reader"
so how would you have known that my REAL reason
for describing it the way that I described it, is that
it was a COMPROMISE

---Kirk "with" an Enterprise at his death---but I also included
the NG cast as possibly a needed thing
---(the ship alone might not have been enough)

this was not a TOS movie it was a TNG movie---so you definitely
cemented my point about the oldschoolers being uncomfortable
with Kirk's death with a major sore point being MERELY having Picard
("some bald dude" negative misnomer applied!) present at Kirk's death.

Problem is, there was no logical way of having Kirk's death in this movie
NOT being connected to Picard/TNG...maybe with the new Enterprise
ship...but most likely with Picard or other additional TNG members present

and THAT is the underlying thorn in a lot of the ol schoolers sides----

tho' the "stepladder" explanation is a nice way to make the gripe
look "pretty"----in that it's not dragging TNG into it, I mean

Well, now I've broached that particular theory

You missed it again entiretly.
And for the record I am also a bald dude...
I am also not ol schooler I'm 36...LOL
The problem I have had with TNG is it failed on all counts except the ending of the series.
The show should have been about the journey the exploration it was not it was a touchy feely 90's PC crap fest.
That is why I like TOS better and for that matter I also liked wait for it....Enterprise.
I have no problem with jean luc as a captain he was just extremely boring and long winded.He would have made abetter admiral instead.

Now I would never pay to watch a new trek movie with TNG cast I would however pay to see a trek Titan movie.

Truth be told if shat makes it to the next one I'll still go see it.I just don't feel it is necessary to move on with the franchise.
But hey who know maybe they can go back in time or forward I guess now and stop the whole nexus deal before it even happens thus saving old kirk.
reuniting old spock and old kirk together again.

[trekman101]

I'm just wondering:
This Nexus Ribbon, how did it "work" again?
Wasn't it that it kind of absorbs you, and put you in a place of your dreams, where everything is as you want it?
Which leaves me thinking: did Kirk really die?

Maybe I should watch the movie again.....

I think when Kirk said "oh my" as he dies was him realizing his consciousness or soul as you may prefer was being pulled back into the nexus....that can be worked into the next movie...

[trekman101]

The Fans weren't the only ones upset about Kirk's death in that Movie....Shatner later said that he "regreted letting them kill Kirk off...and didn't realize how much that Character had come to mean to him". Hence the reason he wrote three Books bringing Kirk back.

THATS RIGHT......

[huedell]

Wow. That was great. Great way for Kirk to go.

Chris

The last post I made might not have made it clear as I was attempting
to elaborate on the "compromise" idea I had---but other than that
I thought the Kirk ending described was good as well.

At least it had the new Enterprise in it.

Any thing other than that (without a TNG element)
wouldn't have made any sense for a movie that was
supposed to being the two "GENERATIONS" together.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Kirk in essence was the enterprise.The enterprise was Kirk he lived for the command of the ship.It was his family/love intrest it would only be fitting that he die with her or near her.
Besides he always new he would die alone(st 6) not with some bald dude hovering over him.

New ending kirk staggers down the hill stumbles falls crawls to the crashed saucer section places his bloddy hand on the saucer under the words enterprise,camera pans back......(cue knocking on heavens door)...fade to black....Bam tears streaming down millions of faces and a great death!!!

Ask any klingon kirk was a warrior he deserved better than death by ladder.

Wow. That was great. Great way for Kirk to go.

Chris

[huedell]

Your close but still not quite getting it.(the way I feel I mean)

Kirk in essence was the enterprise.The enterprise was Kirk he lived for the command of the ship.It was his family/love intrest it would only be fitting that he die with her or near her.
Besides he always new he would die alone(st 6) not with some bald dude hovering over him.

New ending kirk staggers down the hill stumbles falls crawls to the crashed saucer section places his bloddy hand on the saucer under the words enterprise,camera pans back......(cue knocking on heavens door)...fade to black....Bam tears streaming down millions of faces and a great death!!!

Ask any klingon kirk was a warrior he deserved better than death by ladder.

Line for line I KNEW that was your point---
I basically pictured the same kind of Kirk death you described
as preferred.

and I know, I know you're not a "mind reader"
so how would you have known that my REAL reason
for describing it the way that I described it, is that
it was a COMPROMISE

---Kirk "with" an Enterprise at his death---but I also included
the NG cast as possibly a needed thing
---(the ship alone might not have been enough)

this was not a TOS movie it was a TNG movie---so you definitely
cemented my point about the oldschoolers being uncomfortable
with Kirk's death with a major sore point being MERELY having Picard
("some bald dude" negative misnomer applied!) present at Kirk's death.

Problem is, there was no logical way of having Kirk's death in this movie
NOT being connected to Picard/TNG...maybe with the new Enterprise
ship...but most likely with Picard or other additional TNG members present

and THAT is the underlying thorn in a lot of the ol schoolers sides----

tho' the "stepladder" explanation is a nice way to make the gripe
look "pretty"----in that it's not dragging TNG into it, I mean

Well, now I've broached that particular theory

[CaptainTrenchcoat]

Damn I just got goosebumps reading that...

I know exactly how you feel. I would have paid extra just to see that scene.

[fallensaviour]

Damn I just got goosebumps reading that...

[fallensaviour]

Your leaning towards my quickfix idea of Kirk dying near TNG's Enterprise
....interesting...in theory they might've been able to that
by beaming him back to the ship, or shuttling him back to the ship
(that is if Crusher didn't have the means to save him as they
remain there stranded for that period in time)

Since I'm not that affected by the way Kirk died, I can't really speak
for myself, but I wonder, IF he would have died in the presence
of the TNG ship and it's crew...just how would've overall fan reaction
have been?

Your close but still not quite getting it.(the way I feel I mean)

Kirk in essence was the enterprise.The enterprise was Kirk he lived for the command of the ship.It was his family/love intrest it would only be fitting that he die with her or near her.
Besides he always new he would die alone(st 6) not with some bald dude hovering over him.

New ending kirk staggers down the hill stumbles falls crawls to the crashed saucer section places his bloddy hand on the saucer under the words enterprise,camera pans back......(cue knocking on heavens door)...fade to black....Bam tears streaming down millions of faces and a great death!!!

Ask any klingon kirk was a warrior he deserved better than death by ladder.

[Gorn Captain]

I'm just wondering:
This Nexus Ribbon, how did it "work" again?
Wasn't it that it kind of absorbs you, and put you in a place of your dreams, where everything is as you want it?
Which leaves me thinking: did Kirk really die?

Maybe I should watch the movie again.....

[The Bat]

what I WAS doing was just pointing out the differences between
two discussions that may have seemed one and the same to you
("Kirk's death" and "Kirk's TYPE of death").

I know hue...you can't help yourself. You're too funny!

[huedell]

Yeah well...we've already gone off the Title of this thread anyway. My post is still related to the current line of conversation.

I wasn't criticizing your posting theme (I don't really believe that
you always have to stick to the main topic in a thread)...
what I WAS doing was just pointing out the differences between
two discussions that may have seemed one and the same to you
("Kirk's death" and "Kirk's TYPE of death").

[The Bat]

"Kirk's death" and "Kirk's TYPE of death" are two different cans of worms

Yeah well...we've already gone off the Title of this thread anyway. My post is still related to the current line of conversation.

[huedell]

The Fans weren't the only ones upset about Kirk's death in that Movie....Shatner later said that he "regreted letting them kill Kirk off...and didn't realize how much that Character had come to mean to him". Hence the reason he wrote three Books bringing Kirk back.

"Kirk's death" and "Kirk's TYPE of death" are two different cans of worms
but I see what you're saying, and I was actually well aware of Shatner's
serious goal to ressurect Kirk in Trek canon.