Is Sabbath, Zeppelin & Alice METAL ?

[Mikey]

Was watching the history of Metal on VH1 Classics yesterday.
Some people think Sabbath, Zeppelin, Alice, KISS etc were the first Metal bands.
Others consider them classic rock.

I would not count them as metal.
I agree with the people that call them classic rock.

I do agree metal was inspired by them, but no way they're metal.

What do you think ?

[monkey tennis]

Sabbath...yes

Led Zepp...Classic Rock

Alice Cooper...????

KISS...Glam Rock

[txteach]

I guess it depends on the definition.
I think Sabbath is definately metal, Zep on in some songs (communication breakdown), Alice cooper is hard rock. Kiss is early metal.
I think heavy metal is a broad definition so it's very subjective.

[Zemo]

Sabbath...yes

Led Zepp...Classic Rock

Alice Cooper...????

KISS...Glam Rock

I agree with this.

[Merlyn1976]

Sabbath...yes

Led Zepp...Classic Rock

Alice Cooper...????

KISS...Glam Rock

Absolutely...

[Bo8a_Fett]

As txteach said Metal is such a broad spectrum now, it's sub divided into too many genres...I think the whole concept of metal has changed over the years...and in different ways depending on peoples musical tastes...someone who doesn't listen to Rock or metal may well call the bands listed as heavy metal...as they know no different and lump it all in the same pidgeon hole.
The fact that Metal has progressed over the years means that louder, faster, grungier metal has made the original bands seem tame and worthy only of hard rock or classic rock status.
Sabbeth ...very metal
Early Cooper...metal
Led Zep ..i've always seen them more of a metal version of Pink Floyd...almost prog metal if ya like
Kiss is glam rock with metal tendancies
...there are more bands we could throw in the mix such as Rush or Rainbow, Judas Priest, AC DC, Deep purple etc .
One good example is Motorhead....a heavy metal band yet Lemmy prefers to be labelled Rock and Roll (if you listen to some of their stuff the influence is unmissable), and hates the metal tag.

[The Toyroom]

Just remember that when these bands first came out terms like "Classic Rock" didn't exist...to quote "Bowling for Soup" in "1985":

When did Motley Crue become Classic Rock?

So all of these bands were metal or metal-influenced in my opinion...it's looking at them in hindsight after the test of time that we label them with stuff like "Classic Rock".

[The Toyroom]

And Alice Cooper's genre would be "Shock Rock"....Kiss sprang from that too somewhat along with having a foundation in Glam Rock...but when i think "Glam" I also think of the original incarnation of Poison.

[johnmiic]

I saw a show in the early 90's which said LedZep and KISS were the biggest metal bands in the 70's. I thought they were just good rock bands and bands like Sabbath & AC/DC started as hard rock and became Heavy Metal. I guess the label Hard Rock got lost in the mists of time.

I have no problem with them being called Metal bands. I didn't really think Alice Cooper was. The Metal of the 70's and very early 80's were class acts. I would even say Bon Jovi was headed into that direction and then there were metal bands springing up all over the place in the mid 80's-too many in fact and they all copied the good bands and became big stupid glam-rock jokes and killed the genre. Guns & Roses could've continued it but Grunge came a long and offered a great new sound. Grunge should've been the next stage of Heavy Metal I think. It's just the look and attitude of it's preformers were so subdued compared to the big hair and flashy preformances of it's predeceessors it became something seperate.

[nvmbrsdoom5]

This is a debate that still rages on regularly on the different Metal forums, it usually results in alot of disagreement and bickering

I think the most commonly accepted theory is that those aforementioned bands are "proto-metal", meaning that they might not really be true "heavy metal" but that they helped create and define certain crucial elements of what heavy metal was to become, and without their influence, the metal genre wouldn't exist.

I can remember back in the early '80s, people were even referring to bands like Journey and REO Speedwagon as being a part of the "metal" scene, which seems almost preposterous to consider nowadays.

[toys2cool]

I would'nt consider any of those Heavy metal

[Adam West]

Was heavy metal even a term back then?

If it was, name a band from that time period that was a heavy metal band and then I can form a basis of opinion.

I do think Black Sabbath, Cooper, and Kiss was hard rock to heavy metal. Led Zeppelin is questionable.... but again, I'm thinking of them as they compared to other bands at the time.

[livnxxxl]

I would'nt consider any of those Heavy metal

Nor would I by today's standards atleast. "Maybe" back then when the "heavy metal" bar was much lower than it is today. I think of metal today as in Alice in Chain's. Alice Cooper and Kiss could pass for metal with "some" of their songs. I think that this holds more true though especially back in the day when they were not considered classic rock. Led on the other hand would have to fall under classic rock in my opinion. I personally do not find anything all that heavy when it comes to Zeppelin this day and age.

[highquality]

Black Sabbath - Got the Ball Rolling for Metal, no doubt. So much of Metal owes itself to them.

Led Zeppelin - I'd say they're actually Blues Rock as much as anything else. So many of their Lyrics were "borrowed" word for word from Great Southern Blues Artists like Robert Johnson.

Alice Cooper - I'd put him as the Godfather of Glam Rock. I liken him more to David Bowie and Iggy Pop with a little bit of Frank Zappa thrown in the mix.

Kiss - I'd say they're The Godfathers of the Gimmick Band. I know people like them, but I think their lyrics are crap.

[huedell]

trying to put a label on stuff like this is impossible---and embarassing

One man's metal is another man's easy listening.

That being said---KISS is the only band out of those 4 I'll listen to on a regular basis
---and I'll note that when the British Wave Of Heavy Metal began in the early 80s
THAT'S when KISS began doing heavier music---and they've dabbled in it ever since

The irony is that 70s KISS probably aided in helping that BWOHM gain momentum
here in the States---and may have actually influenced some of the actual British
metal bands