eBay changes

[MegoSteve]

A buyer's end of the transaction ends when he has paid.

Do you ever return anything that you buy?

[Sideshow Spock]

A buyer's end of the transaction ends when he has paid.

Consider this hypthetical situation: what about after the item has been paid for and shipped, and the buyer unfairly takes issue with the item's description or quality, despite the fact the seller made such things perfectly clear in the auction? Couldn't the buyer's behavior upon receipt of the item be part of the transaction experience for the seller? If he paid on time, but was otherwise a big jerk?

[Dave Mc]

A buyer's end of the transaction ends when he has paid.

My transactions on ebay are about 75% as a buyer and I still feel this is incorrect. Just because a buyer paid, doesn't mean the transaction is over. There are so many factors after that it's not funny.

Say a seller offers insurance, but the buyer declines. If the package arrives damaged and the buyer demands restitution, that buyer is being totally unreasonable. The transaction isn't over until it's over. That means means the seller is paid and the buyer has the item. I've always thought it crazy for a seller to leave feedback until all is said and done.

A buyer can be just as unreasonable and just as much a cheat as a seller. Taking away the power to leave a neg for a buyer is totally crazy. I might as well start buying figures with hard to find accessories I need, strip the parts off when the figure arrives and claim the figure came incomplete. The seller would have no course of action accept to take the neg.

[MegoSteve]

Consider this hypthetical situation: what about after the item has been paid for and shipped, and the buyer unfairly takes issue with the item's description or quality, despite the fact the seller made such things perfectly clear in the auction? Couldn't the buyer's behavior upon receipt of the item be part of the transaction experience for the seller? If he paid on time, but was otherwise a big jerk?

Exactly. To me, a buyer saying, "The transaction is over when I pay," is like a seller saying, "The transaction is over when I ship."

[megoat]

Maybe eBay should just be making those changes to the stores themselves and not the good ol' flea market they've built their business on.

And that's just it, Steve. eBay has consciously moved away from it's humble "Pez dispenser" trading origins and rather sees itself (and perhaps, rightly so) as a giant online retailer like Amazon. It is clearly at odds with itself as to how to present itself in the this fashion. The eBay feedback system is/was flawed but seemed to work OK to a degree. But this new system is obviously tilted WAY in the favor of the buyer. This is just pure corporate BS strategy. I hate it. I have over 2000 positive feedbacks. 100 percent positive. I KNOW this is gonna change now......

[Mikey]

Not to revive a dead horse, but here's the email I got from my patch buyer....

I do not mind sending the 9.99 that I bid but to send an extra 9.00 to ship something that I no longer want, and that I consider to have been misrepresented I wont do. we need to come to a conclusion about this because the threat of negative feedback is of no consequense to me. Let me know what you are willing to do. thank you

I have a strange feeling, after all these changes take place, a lot more sellers might be getting similar messages as the one I got above.

[Meule]

Well that is the the stupidest thing Iv'e read in a while. Feed back if left ( it is a voluntary thing) should be left at the end of the transaction. If you think the transaction ends with you paying, them ebay probably isn't for you.

While I don't completely agree with eBay, I can understand Brue, I'm pretty much the same way. As a buyer your end of the bargain does end after you've paid. Or what else are we supposed to do? Go to the seller's house, pack the stuff we just bought ourselves and mail it out ourselves... to ourselves? Come one, man...
But this system pretty much screws sellers, I agree with that. No system is foolproof, but this is an invitation for bad buyers to blackmail and extort honest sellers

[Brue]

Do you ever return anything that you buy?

on ebay - no.

besides even if i did, if i paid on time and then had a reason to return that still would not earn me a negative.

someone has to leave feedback first. the seller or the buyer.

the buyer is the person who has completed his part first. the seller's protection was waiting for the payment before shipping
the seller has all of the risk at this point.

the seller got paid - barring really rare circumstances (like th ecase i had and others i have read here - this is the mark of a good buyer.

if you are holding out feedback then you are the reason the system doesn't work and the reason ebay has had to institute new policies.

[Brue]

Not to revive a dead horse, but here's the email I got from my patch buyer....

I do not mind sending the 9.99 that I bid but to send an extra 9.00 to ship something that I no longer want, and that I consider to have been misrepresented I wont do. we need to come to a conclusion about this because the threat of negative feedback is of no consequense to me. Let me know what you are willing to do. thank you

I have a strange feeling, after all these changes take place, a lot more sellers might be getting similar messages as the one I got above.

I am sure that after this plan is put into action - it will need to be monitored and revised.
This guy didn't care about the neg so haveing it or not having it wouldn't have changed this transaction

[Mikey]

As a seller, I never give feedback until my buyer leaves me feedback first.

If that makes me a villian, then so be it.

[Hector]

Same here, Mike.

[Brue]

Consider this hypthetical situation: what about after the item has been paid for and shipped, and the buyer unfairly takes issue with the item's description or quality, despite the fact the seller made such things perfectly clear in the auction? Couldn't the buyer's behavior upon receipt of the item be part of the transaction experience for the seller? If he paid on time, but was otherwise a big jerk?

If he is a big jerk - i don't care - he paid. - as a matter of fact my only neg came from a guy who after 45 DAYS AND A NON PAYING BIDDER DISPUTE WAS FILED he paid - i left positive - he left neg when he got the item. I am sure because he was mad about the UID. I would not have changed the way it was handled on my end.
if sellers leave negs for people because they are jerks that is fine. Just don't do it because they gave you a deserved negative. - or hold out just to find out what they will do.
Honest sellers don't need a policy of deceit.

When is the last time the manager at mcdonald's or the ritz carlton or walmart haad a chance at all to rate you? Buyers don't get rated. As long as you pay McD's will give you your burger. I suppose if you reached over and pulled money out of the register they'd kick you out - so does ebay.

Like I said, in over 1000 transactions I have received 1 neg. It was unfair. I made a note in the feedback. I moved on.
I could have a much higher feedback rating if i just complied the seller's requests of please leave feedback then i will - but it is unethical. it is extortion that is presented as self protection.

I clearly am the minority voice here on this subject but I am not just OK with it - I have longed for this change.

The things being said here have only convinced me of the need.

[Zemo]

Feedback It is NOT a requirement....it is VOLUNTARY!!!

Payment is a requirement, I do not feel a buyer deserves a pat on the back simply for paying.

There are LOTS of things a buyer can do AFTER making a payment and receiving positive feedback:

1/ Do a chargeback on the payment.
2/ Insist on a partial refund because the peanuts were different colors...or they will leave a neg.
3/ Insist on the package arrive within 24hrs or they will leave neg.
4/ Call you at home 10 times a day asking where their package is the day after they paid.
5/ Do a switchero. Switch out their broken ipod for your new one and file a SNAD to get a refund.

And the list goes on....

People that think their end of the transaction is over at payment are have no clue.

[toys2cool]

I'm also one of the ones that don't leave feedback until it is left to me,I just think if you leave it to the buyer first then he has the upper hand and he knows it...let's say for some reason he didn't like the item as much as he thought or expected something a lot better,then he could always ask for a partial refund or his money back or he'll leave you a negative (kind of like black mailing you) it's happened to me before and I won't let that happen again

[MegoSteve]

on ebay - no.

besides even if i did, if i paid on time and then had a reason to return that still would not earn me a negative.

But if the transaction was over when you paid, what gives you a right to return something? Following your logic, you paid, your end of the transaction is over, so that's it, you take what you get.