eBay changes

[thunderbolt]

I think I'll just stop leaving feedback altogether, as a seller and buyer. Most sellers on there now hold out leaving feedback until it is left for them. I've even had a few bug me about it thru emails.

[livnxxxl]

My two cent$

I am not taking anyone's side here I am just merely adding my two cents for whatever it may be worth. I say to each their own.

As a seller I always left feedback promptly once I was left feedback by the buyer. This way I knew that the package was received and the buyer was satisfied with his/her purchase. This atleast gave me a chance to make things right (within reason) if I could. This also protected me in a sense from a would be bad buyer out to stiff me. This system worked well for me atleast and the best part was I did not even have to list it as a policy in my auction ads. I definitely do not agree with everything that eBay does. The policies that eBay has in place definitely does not work for everyone all of the time. I have been recently shafted by eBay and I have 100% positive feedback. I seen a post here at The Museum stating someone had six negatives in less than a month and is still going strong on eBay. I just do not understand eBay's logic all of the time if there is even any logic involved in their decision making process in the first place. It would appear to me that eBay like most BIG companies these days are in it for the BIG bucks now that they are well established and could give a hoot less about the small time sellers. Ebay is like Wal-Mart in the sense that they both have the markets dominated and pretty much sewn up. This is what happens when companies become to big for their own good. Again, Just my two cents for whatever it may be worth.

Happy Megoing!

[Mikey]

I have no idea why (a feeling perhaps), but I think ebay is slowly but surely on it's way out -- and they know it.

I think for this reason, they're scraping up every penny they can before they sell out.

[MegoSteve]

I seen a post here at The Museum stating someone had six negatives in less than a month and is still going strong on eBay

Yeah, the guy's up to seven now since I left my feedback on 12-10... total rip-off artist and eBay still hasn't kicked the guy off. If the way they deal with fraudulent sellers is any indication, they won't do anything about non-paying bidders, either.

[EMCE Hammer]

I have no idea why (a feeling perhaps), but I think ebay is slowly but surely on it's way out -- and they know it.

I think for this reason, they're scraping up every penny they can before they sell out.

I dunno Mike. I think they are just greedy, and they probably have more overhead to cover. TV spots and glossy catalogs cut into the profit margin. Who is going to replace them?

On a side note, I think the catalog is possibly the most useless one around. The whole idea is that you can find anything on Ebay. So they throw together a few random pics for people to help them with their imagination? "Wow, if I type "Dodge Charger or coffee enema" in the search box I'll find just what I'm looking for!" If you can turn on a computer, chances are you know about Ebay. When they send me a catalog they are just preaching to the choir.

[Brue]

... TV spots and glossy catalogs cut into the profit margin. ...

...I think the catalog is possibly the most useless one around. The whole idea is that you can find anything on Ebay. So they throw together a few random pics for people to help them with their imagination? "Wow, if I type "Dodge Charger or coffee enema" in the search box I'll find just what I'm looking for!" If you can turn on a computer, chances are you know about Ebay. When they send me a catalog they are just preaching to the choir.

Amen brother. I hate the fact that we pay for those catalogs and tv spots.
I get angry when the catalog arrives at my house. The return they get for "their" investment has to be negative.

I figure I paid for the catalog that arrived at my haouse and everyone in my neighborhood.

You are right - no one needs this thing.

Heck, if eBay promises me they won't send anymore I will promise to remind my neighbors that eBay exists.

[megoat]

The main reason eBay makes all these changes is that they are a publicly traded company with shareholders. On Wall Street you are considered a failure unless you show some sort of perpetual growth. It doesn't matter if the company is making bucks hand over fist, if profits start to stagnate this makes the shareholders nervous. That's why there are always changes in these huge companies even if the initial idea ain't exactly broke. So yeah, call it "greed" but it's basically the way things are run in the gross world of giant corporations. eBay certainly did not invent the way the game is played. I wonder how much their new CEO is getting paid? Hmmm......

[nvmbrsdoom5]

Considering all these changes to Ebay and that there's some pretty unscrupulous characters out there, thank god we have the Marketplace here for safe and sensible buying/selling/trading. I'd much rather deal with people here and buy/sell with them for sure.

[Corellian Corvette]

Just to jump on the bandwagon - Buyer should always leave feedback first, for the reasons that the smart folks have already outlined. It's something I practice as a buyer and as a seller. If I'm happy with an item when I recieve it, I always leave (+) feedback. If I see (+) on an item I sold, I leave (+) in return.

If I see no feedback - I do this thing called "Contact Buyer" and I ask them to leave me feedback and say I will do the same. If I get no response or no feedback, then that's a pretty good sign not to leave them anything.

Besides the OUTRAGEOUS increase in prices that ebay is trying to call "listing fee reductions"; they are taking a pretty big increase.

I did an EXCEL spreadsheet and I can caluclate the fee increases using any combination of Listing and Selling prices, and give you the delta between the new and old fee structure. If you used the gallery before, and list an item for $9.99 and it sells for between $15 and $100, you're going to be paying 8% to 23% (!) more in fees than before. So just assume selling now costs you 10% - $15 more. It's slightly less on bigger ticket items as you can see.

If you want me to run a sample, just let me know.

EXAMPLE 1:
Listing Price $9.99
Selling Price $50.00

Old (Listing + Gallery)
Listing Fee $0.75
Selling Fee $2.13
Total Cost $2.88

New
Listing Fee $0.35
Selling Fee $3.06
Total Cost $3.41

Change 19%

EXAMPLE 2:
Listing Price $24.99
Selling Price $75.00

Old (Listing + Gallery)
Listing Fee $0.95
Selling Fee $2.94
Total Cost $3.89

New
Listing Fee $0.55
Selling Fee $3.94
Total Cost $4.49

Change 15%


Listing Price $99.00
Selling Price $200.00

EXAMPLE 3:
Old (Listing + Gallery)
Listing Fee $2.75
Selling Fee $7.00
Total Cost $9.75

New
Listing Fee $2.00
Selling Fee $8.31
Total Cost $10.31

Change 6%

[ABMAC]

Most of the negatives left by sellers are retaliatory. Sellers misuse the feedback system to avoid getting the negatives they deserve, and many of them use it to shield themselves so they can intentionally misrepresent items and overcharge for shipping.

Sellers carry the burden of describing the items accurately, estimating the shipping costs, and packing the items for safe delivery. Buyers only have to pay for the items. If a mistake is made, it's almost always the seller who makes it. Sellers withhold feedback so that they can use the threat of retaliatory negs to avoid getting negs themselves when they make mistakes or intentionally cheat their buyers. They don't wait until the buyer leaves feedback first because they want to make sure their buyers are happy; they do it so they can make sure their buyers can't neg them when they deserve it.

Negative feedback for sellers shouldn't be taken so seriously. All sellers make mistakes, and they should get negative feedback for the mistakes they make. When I see a seller with a high feedback rating and no negs, I suspect that seller of misusing the system to extort positive feedback from unhappy buyers.

If a seller doesn't leave me feedback first, I don't leave them feedback unless I'm really happy with the item and the shipping price was fair.

[Corellian Corvette]

As I was thinking about this tonight, something occurred to me about my perspective on eBay’s decision. And that is – I don't have all the facts.

One of the things that happens a lot in my job is people often use their own personal perspective as a judge for what "most" people do. And the reality is - when you have access to information on a large scale and can look at trends, what really is happening may look much different. Ebay is a business, and a business’s job is to STAY in business. I seriously doubt they have taken this decision lightly and very well may have information that totally makes this a logical choice.

While I'm not sure ABMAC has access to eBay’s internal data, it's very possible the scenario he outlines is spot-on. For all we know, 80% of the fraud that occurs on eBay happens on the Seller side. If that's the case, eBay’s decision may be exactly the right one; allow buyers to give more honest feedback without fear of retaliation, and weed out the bad sellers. We may see a rash of negative feedback on people we know are lousy, or help us keep away from questionable folks.

So it’s entirely possible. While we can all envision scenarios where this is a terrible thing, on the grand scale across hundreds of thousands of transactions, this may actually weed out a lot of bad apples.

Not to say I’m on board with it – and certainly I’m going to be careful. But the more I think about it, I have to realize eBay must have a reason for this.

I’m much more ****ed about the fee increase.

[starsky]

i believe ebay is trying to attract more buyers to their site. that's how they make the bulk of their money. so if the buyer has a pleasant experience they will come back and buy more and also tell their friends about it. ebay reaps the profit. they already know the sellers are hooked and arent going anywhere else. it' s all about making the buying experience the best on ebay.

[EMCE Hammer]

Most of the negatives left by sellers are retaliatory.

First off, I'd like to see your data. In my case as a seller, you're absolutely right. I have received two negs out of 100s of transactions, and neither were remotely deserved. One was from a guy who won an item from me, and disappeared. After numerous attempts to track him down, I gave up and relisted. He contacted me right after I relisted and wanted me to kill the relist after I already had bids, and I refused. I told him he could win it again and pay me, and in return I'd leave positive feedback. I also told him I wouldn't neg him for the first transaction, but if he hosed me again I most certainly would. He negged me, I negged him back. The second scenario involves the notorious ****** Carl Reeves. My memory is foggy, but I think he never paid and negged me after I didn't take his word that he had sent payment that I had never received, and of course he had no proof. He negged me, I negged him back. There has got to be a way to warn sellers about flakes like these. How would we know about the Carl Reeves of the world otherwise? Word of mouth eventually catches up to people if they're prolific scoundrels, but in the meantime their victims will never have a clue, and they probably only ever will if they come to a Museum type setting where the bad guys are reported.


Sellers misuse the feedback system to avoid getting the negatives they deserve, and many of them use it to shield themselves so they can intentionally misrepresent items and overcharge for shipping.

Sometimes they do, absolutely.

Sellers carry the burden of describing the items accurately, estimating the shipping costs, and packing the items for safe delivery. Buyers only have to pay for the items. If a mistake is made, it's almost always the seller who makes it. Sellers withhold feedback so that they can use the threat of retaliatory negs to avoid getting negs themselves when they make mistakes or intentionally cheat their buyers. They don't wait until the buyer leaves feedback first because they want to make sure their buyers are happy; they do it so they can make sure their buyers can't neg them when they deserve it.

Again, that does sometimes happen.

Negative feedback for sellers shouldn't be taken so seriously. All sellers make mistakes, and they should get negative feedback for the mistakes they make. When I see a seller with a high feedback rating and no negs, I suspect that seller of misusing the system to extort positive feedback from unhappy buyers.

I'm shocked that a guy like you who has such a positive outlook on everything would have a perspective so in conflict with your general nature. I am sure some people fall for feedback extortion, but my data tells me that people are a lot tougher over a keyboard than they are in person, and it's a very small percentage of true pussies who will put up with that nonsense. I have found that the high feedback/high sales people have great systems in place and do a good job of keeping me apprised of the status of the transaction. It's easier for me to assume that good feedback = good seller than it is to suspect that good feedback = crook


If a seller doesn't leave me feedback first, I don't leave them feedback unless I'm really happy with the item and the shipping price was fair.

But aren't you glad that you have a voice, regardless of whether you choose to use it or not?

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

I got a weird, semi-related question. I just won something on ebay (giant scanner.... HEHEHEHEHEHEHEEEEEEEEE.....) and got half a dozen confirmation, invoice, and update e-mails from ebay about it. Is that NORMAL? I haven't bid on anything for a year or so, and back then I'd get like, two.

Don C.

[ABMAC]

Most of the negatives left by sellers are retaliatory.

First off, I'd like to see your data.

Logic, Steve. Buyers only have one obligation to meet for a successful transaction; paying for the item, and sellers usually don't bother negging a non-paying buyer, they just relist and move on. Because buyers are more often the ones who are dissatisfied with a transaction, they have more legitimate excuses to leave negs, and sellers neg them in return.

In my case as a seller, you're absolutely right. I have received two negs out of 100s of transactions, and neither were remotely deserved. One was from a guy who won an item from me, and disappeared. After numerous attempts to track him down, I gave up and relisted. He contacted me right after I relisted and wanted me to kill the relist after I already had bids, and I refused. I told him he could win it again and pay me, and in return I'd leave positive feedback. I also told him I wouldn't neg him for the first transaction, but if he hosed me again I most certainly would. He negged me, I negged him back. The second scenario involves the notorious ****** Carl Reeves. My memory is foggy, but I think he never paid and negged me after I didn't take his word that he had sent payment that I had never received, and of course he had no proof. He negged me, I negged him back. There has got to be a way to warn sellers about flakes like these. How would we know about the Carl Reeves of the world otherwise? Word of mouth eventually catches up to people if they're prolific scoundrels, but in the meantime their victims will never have a clue, and they probably only ever will if they come to a Museum type setting where the bad guys are reported.

If you've never had a strong enough reason to leave a neg as a seller except in these two cases where the buyers didn't pay, and you chose not to, you prove my point. I'm sure there were many times when your buyers weren't completely satisfied with your listings, shipping, or delivery pricing (even if only because their expectations were unreasonably high), but didn't leave a negative because they didn't want a retaliatory neg in return.

Negative feedback for sellers shouldn't be taken so seriously. All sellers make mistakes, and they should get negative feedback for the mistakes they make. When I see a seller with a high feedback rating and no negs, I suspect that seller of misusing the system to extort positive feedback from unhappy buyers.

I'm shocked that a guy like you who has such a positive outlook on everything would have a perspective so in conflict with your general nature.

You're out of bounds. This ad hominem attack is uncalled for. You don't know what my outlook is, nor can you accurately assess my general nature.

I am sure some people fall for feedback extortion, but my data tells me that people are a lot tougher over a keyboard than they are in person, and it's a very small percentage of true pussies who will put up with that nonsense. I have found that the high feedback/high sales people have great systems in place and do a good job of keeping me apprised of the status of the transaction. It's easier for me to assume that good feedback = good seller than it is to suspect that good feedback = crook

I'm not talking about your average junk flipper; I mean your Power Sellers with 99.99% feedback. A buyer like myself with less than 500 feedback and a 100% rating is more apt to cave in to one of these sellers because we know a neg from us won't even drop them to 99.98%, while a single neg out of 500 feedback drops it from 100% to 99.8%.

If a seller doesn't leave me feedback first, I don't leave them feedback unless I'm really happy with the item and the shipping price was fair.

But aren't you glad that you have a voice, regardless of whether you choose to use it or not?

I've never left a neg because I would be punished more harshly for speaking out against dishonest sellers than the sellers themselves would. I hardly consider that a voice.