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**Bo8a_Fett** · Jan 29, '08, 4:35 PM

"Feedback more than 12-months old won't count towards your Feedback percentage"
Well whats the point of that???? Does this mean if you were a twat last year it won't count against you this year????
E bay's getting worse and worse....

**MegoSteve** · Jan 29, '08, 5:13 PM

I wonder if eBay is intent on ruining their own business. Buyers can't get anything but positive feedback?! That is completely idiotic. eBay either doesn't have the staff or they don't have the inclination to do ANYTHING about non-paying bidders. (They barely do anything about fraudulent sellers as it is, what makes them think they'll be able to deal with non-paying bidders?)

There really needs to be an alternative. Maybe I'll start selling on Amazon.

**toys2cool** · Jan 29, '08, 5:28 PM

yeah i was just checking these out,I don't get it man

**Brue** · Jan 29, '08, 5:34 PM

I agree with eBay here - sellers have gotten in the habit of waiting for buyer feedback before leaving feedback - for the point of retaliation. it is a major problem
i do not leave feed back for sellers who wait.

once i have paid - which is typically instantly - i have met my end of the bargain and feedback should be left based on that - not on the fact that i said they sent me an item that was not as described only after i emailed them for two months to get them to sent it at all - it takes a lot for me to leave a neg. - when i do i don't want a neg even though I paid right away and communicated well.

**megoat** · Jan 29, '08, 5:53 PM

Originally posted by MegoSteve

There really needs to be an alternative. Maybe I'll start selling on Amazon.

This is exactly who eBay is trying to compete with in terms of their new changes. When buyers use Amazon, are they rated by sellers? Obviously not.

While I do not agree with eBay's changes, what they are obviously trying to do is make eBay a more "buyer friendly" experience. Just as Brue touched upon, by removing the ability for a seller to leave a retaliatory negative, they are attempting to create a feedback system that is more accurately represented by the needs of buyers. Taking the "customer is always right" philosophy all the way, the idea is to instill buyer confidence which should result, in theory, to more customers using the site.

Let's face it, as eBay sees it, weeding out bad sellers is much more important to their bottom line than weeding out bad buyers.

Again, I don't really agree with eBay's decisions, but these decisions have nothing to do with "not having staff". eBay is a HUGE profit making company. These are the sort of conscious decisions that corporate honchos make all the time.

**Zemo** · Jan 29, '08, 5:58 PM

Originally posted by Brue

I agree with eBay here - sellers have gotten in the habit of waiting for buyer feedback before leaving feedback - for the point of retaliation. it is a major problem
i do not leave feed back for sellers who wait.

once i have paid - which is typically instantly - i have met my end of the bargain and feedback should be left based on that - not on the fact that i said they sent me an item that was not as described only after i emailed them for two months to get them to sent it at all - it takes a lot for me to leave a neg. - when i do i don't want a neg even though I paid right away and communicated well.

Well that is the the stupidest thing Iv'e read in a while. Feed back if left ( it is a voluntary thing) should be left at the end of the transaction. If you think the transaction ends with you paying, them ebay probably isn't for you.

**Mikey** · Jan 29, '08, 6:07 PM

Buyers will only be able to receive positive Feedback.

I don't like that one bit.

Who made that up ?

**MegoSteve** · Jan 29, '08, 6:10 PM

They are making it more "buyer friendly" at the expense of the people paying all of the bills. All that's going to happen here is that buyers will make insane demands of sellers without sellers having any redress.

Just as an example, Mike (t1k) sold a bunch of paper NASA patches on eBay to a guy who couldn't be bothered to read very explicit auction description of the item and then *****ed at Mike because he got exactly what he ordered. If that auction were to happen now, Mike would have a neg and no recourse whatsoever against the buyer. Is that fair?

Here's another scenario I wouldn't be surprised at. If you're a seller like me, you take pride in your 100% feedback score. What's to stop a buyer from bidding and winning on one of my auctions, then blackmail me with, "If you don't give me the item for free, I am going to leave you a negative." There would be absolutely nothing I as a seller could do to prevent my score from being ruined in the meantime, and eBay would drag their feet about doing anything about it if they even bother. Sellers with 100% feedback will have big red bullseyes on their heads. Is that fair?

That may seem unlikely, but what about this... someone buys something from you and gets it and decides they don't like it for whatever reason. Sellers will now be obligated to accept virtually unconditional returns from tire-kickers and flakes. Once again, the seller will get screwed under threat of bad feedback; I can just see people demanding you send them postage money so they can return the item they didn't really want in the first place. Some categories where condition is very subjective, like comic books, will be totally decimated by this.

You can bet the number of non-paying bidders will go up dramatically as a result of this, too, because there just won't be a reason to pay. eBay isn't going to sue non-paying bidders, so what will they do? Throw them off? Big deal... they just make a new account and they're good to go!

From a buyer's perspective, the whole thing with them not counting any feedback older than a year is a complete joke, too, because now fraudsters don't even have to make new accounts to boost their feedback score after they've ripped people off... they can just wait a year for it to reset.

**toys2cool** · Jan 29, '08, 6:16 PM

Originally posted by MegoSteve

They are making it more "buyer friendly" at the expense of the people paying all of the bills. All that's going to happen here is that buyers will make insane demands of sellers without sellers having any redress.

Just as an example, Mike (t1k) sold a bunch of paper NASA patches on eBay to a guy who couldn't be bothered to read very explicit auction description of the item and then *****ed at Mike because he got exactly what he ordered. If that auction were to happen now, Mike would have a neg and no recourse whatsoever against the buyer. Is that fair?

Here's another scenario I wouldn't be surprised at. If you're a seller like me, you take pride in your 100% feedback score. What's to stop a buyer from bidding and winning on one of my auctions, then blackmail me with, "If you don't give me the item for free, I am going to leave you a negative." There would be absolutely nothing I as a seller could do to prevent my score from being ruined in the meantime, and eBay would drag their feet about doing anything about it if they even bother. Sellers with 100% feedback will have big red bullseyes on their heads. Is that fair?

You can bet the number of non-paying bidders will go up dramatically as a result of this, too, because there just won't be a reason to pay. eBay isn't going to sue non-paying bidders, so what will they do? Throw them off? Big deal... they just make a new account and they're good to go!

From a buyer's perspective, the whole thing with them not counting any feedback older than a year is a complete joke, too, because now fraudsters don't even have to make new accounts to boost their feedback score after they've ripped people off... they can just wait a year for it to reset.

^^ agreed man

**Brue** · Jan 29, '08, 6:16 PM

Originally posted by Zemo

Well that is the the stupidest thing Iv'e read in a while. Feed back if left ( it is a voluntary thing) should be left at the end of the transaction. If you think the transaction ends with you paying, them ebay probably isn't for you.

A buyer's end of the transaction ends when he has paid.

Stupid is stupid does.

**megoat** · Jan 29, '08, 6:17 PM

True, Megosteve.

As a mostly seller on eBay, I hate the changes.

But also keep in mind that eBay's decisions aren't made with sellers like myself in mind (or sellers selling "Nasa Patches"). The vast majority of eBay's profits are made from sellers who sell NEW consumer electronics and other items (often via eBay stores or fixed price listings) that are routinely sold on other sites like Amazon. They are taking calculated measures to try to lure customers away from those other sites. Unfortunately my sales strategy has nothing to do with selling Ipods or Flat screen tv's or new DVD's etc etc. but I fear MY bottom line will be affected by these new changes....

**Mikey** · Jan 29, '08, 6:21 PM

The whole thing is nuts....

So they're saying a buyer can be a prick without recourse.

What are they going to do about back-charges ?

Do those people still get postives ?

Nuts.

**MegoSteve** · Jan 29, '08, 6:27 PM

I can see your point there, megoat, but why force that on everyone else? eBay's just going to stumble hard if they think they'll ever be able to compete with the mall or even Amazon, especially if feedback only reflects the last year of selling.

Maybe eBay should just be making those changes to the stores themselves and not the good ol' flea market they've built their business on.

**Brue** · Jan 29, '08, 6:27 PM

Most of the changes favor sellers. LOWER FEES!!!!!!!!!!!
Removed neg feedback from deadbeats.
Multiple positive feedback from same buyer count. (it is only for the multiples that feedback is not counted after 12 months - it currently is never counted)

In my opinion even having buyers not being able to recieve negs - it helps GOOD sellers - yes, the people who screw people over will quicly learn.
And of course I know there are unscrupulous buyers - i have recieved a negative for the most ridiculous reason - it is one neg. and that is unusual.

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