Obligatory Avenger's Thread

[Earth 2 Chris]

^Amen.

Chris

[Tothiro]

Ok... why not? :{ <-- (smiley with a mustache)

Best. Post. Credit. Scene. Ever.

Beyond that, I also really enjoyed it.

Iron Man 1 I really liked, IM2 left me cold (because of the character's moral regression, which retreaded IM1 territory and not as well, the recasting really bothered me, the villian was a guy in a room for two thirds of the movie... etc.) But Downey can save even some of the worst films just by being so amazingly awesome.

Thor was... fun to see on the screen. Not a great film, but I enjoyed a lot of parts of it. Tired of Portman though - could think of a dozen actresses better for that role.

Saw both Hulks. Second better than first, of course, but I think that was a tonal problem with Lee's version, and I really would have been interested in hearing Norton's version of the second films other scenes and edits...

Captain America was probably one of my favorites of the solo films. I wish there'd been actual Nazis at least somewhere in Europe, but hey. Cap was ridiculously jingoistic, but - Hello - It's Captain America. Kind of his whole point. I felt like that was a very comic book tone, like Rocketeer was in the day. The effects really sold the story - because that character building in the start was well deserved. I felt the song and dance center of the film was too long, and that Cap really needed some adventuresome plot advancement before it was just a big finale scene. I still really liked it.

So - Avengers was going to be a beast of story juggling, and still I think the characters were serviced well. Cap's reevaluation of his worldview is a really interesting way to modernize him in a hurry (I mean last week it was the Holocaust for him). I would have liked to have seen more about whether his love interest was Tony Stark's momma. I have always loved the Agent Phil character. By and large this bit delivered everything I could have expected.
I actually liked Loki a lot more, and felt his comic character coming through in this round than in the Thor movie - kind of hated his character in that one... Too inexperienced, whiny. The Hulk problem doesn't bother me as much because the Banner/Hulk dynamic has always historically been less about the actual havoc created than it has been Banner's reluctance and hatred in giving up control. Hulk has never (except in that horrible ultimates thing) willfully destroyed innocents - he is just kind of big and stupid smash machine. Banner can't control what Hulk does, and that whole Id/Superego thing is reason enough for me that he'd not want to change... Then Banner recognizes that the events demand Hulk, and he gives over. I think the logic is also that if Hulk is roused in a fight or flee response, then yes of course he's going to rampage through the side of the helicarrier - and that if he's called to action so to speak by Banner in a smooth transition, he'll be more Avengers Hulk than Solo Book Hulk.

Joss taking major credit for the box office though seems a little like giving someone a bulldozer to push a quadriplegic off a cliff and having them claim they're a world class super ninja assassin afterwards. I mean - how badly would you have to mess this one up to affect its box office? Even the Hulks did healthy numbers, and you had three other runaway amazing properties going into this.
I really liked it - it was fun. I have the old comics and some reprints, and they're fun too. If I had a two hour movie about Hydra agents creating a Captain America impersonator who was mean to babies in an attempt to discredit him in the public eye - I would walk out of the theater (and that's an Avengers plot - I'm sure someone can quote me the issue).
I don't go to movies for a book reading experience, much the same way I don't listen to music for a filling meal experience.
I understand the passion though - I was actually disheartened and disappointed by the Hellboy movie franchise.
Geez I ramble.

If you haven't seen Avengers yet shame on you.


OH and Spiderman!!!!
#2 actually sold me in the elevated train scene - the community pulling together to support their hero figure and their recognition of his age really was a great story point.
There can be no excuse for #3

[Earth 2 Chris]

I like Iron Man 2 a lot. I understand where people are coming from with the moral regression, but I think the adulation Stark received as Iron Man replaced his previous fame as the big bad munitions magnate. He was convinced he was the good guy free and clear now, and got cocky. I thought it was actually pretty refreshing to see a hero fall back into old habits and need to pull himself up yet again. It's often what happens to us in real life.

I agree Spider-Man 2's subway scene is one of the heights of that series. I really liked the movies overall, with 2 being my favorite. Still really fond of that one. The third movie was just ill-conceived all the way around. It's hard to watch for me. My kid loves it!!!

Chris

[Tothiro]

I understand where people are coming from with the moral regression, but I think the adulation Stark received as Iron Man replaced his previous fame as the big bad munitions magnate.

It was just too quick a turnaround for me - and a lot of that IM1 character redemption was based on his inner realization that whatever his persona on the outside and personal misbehavior, his actions had real consequences. The lesson he was learning was that he was manufacturing people's death. That underlies the whole angry suiting up and flying out to meet the militia bit.
But then by IM2, he's abdicated all responsibility completely and his attitude is "yeah, whatevs."
I get that that's a more realistic representation of character flaw - but ... you know.

That's why I was really curious about the Stark Sr and Captain America myth stories background. I know unpacking daddy issues was not this film - but like what is Stark's major hang up there?