Do you believe in them?

[Brazoo]

Here's an interesting and fun article by Steve Novella (Steven Novella - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). It's a summary of the New England Skeptical Society's investigation into the paranormal research of Ed and Lorraine Warren (of Amityville Horror fame):

NeuroLogica Blog Hunting the Ghost Hunters


Another great article on research showing how our brains can "sense" people who are not actually there, and how the brain can actually be stimulated to create the experience on cue:

NeuroLogica Blog Who Goes There?


Also, it's interesting to look up articles on the effects of things like sleep paralysis, hypnagogic hallucinations or Waking Dreams - which are fairly common.

[alex]

Having lived in my fathers basement,I have to say my belife in the supernatural is firm.
Dont think I could convince you bout this without first hand experience.
Rest assured though that I am sure.
Boo!

Im interested

[alex]

interesting this post came up now. One night ago something called out my name while I was lying on my bed (that does not sound right does it) so I flicked on the lights and went back to sleep with them on. Yes I do believe, but would rather not have them in my house

Lets hear it

[palitoy]

I don't have any belief in ghosts, aliens or sasquatcheseses.

[Sandman9580]

I experienced sleep paralysis on three separate occasions when I was younger. It was pretty awful, but I didn't sense anything "malevolent". I just thought I had something wrong with me.

Looking into it though, I thought it was fascinating how the phenomenon of alien abduction has all these historical precedents everywhere, like in the medieval incubus/succubus legends. It's like our physical nature and limitations interact with the Zeitgeist (to carry on the "spirit" theme here) and then these bizarre afflictions (hysteria, diseases, mental disorders) pop into existence. There's this weird natural selection process at work. (And then it sort of occurs to you that it's not just the bizarre stuff -- it's everything. Language, ideas, memes, frames of thinking. Suddenly reality starts to feel random and arbitrary and contingent...)

Anyway -- I think the infinite complexity of the brain is a lot easier to believe in than ghosts. It's also more responsible, I think. I once read that Stanley Kubrick had trouble thinking through The Shining, because the notion that ghosts (i.e. life after physical death) exist is ultimately a very optimistic assertion -- which he thought diluted the horror. (He seemed to find a kind of reconciliation of this in Full Metal Jacket, though, where the theme is, "Hell is on Earth, and I am in Hell, but I'm alive, and it's better to be alive than dead.") Believing in ghosts seems like an existential form of procrastination. It's saying the burden of exploring the mysteries of being human is too heavy, and anyway, it can wait -- we'll be around forever. Exploring that complexity now means there's more of an immediate burden, and that you have to assume some responsibility. It's saying: let's figure out our own psychic phenomena, and let the neurologists, psychologists, and Margaret Meads of the spirit realm figure out theirs. If they're... y'know, there.

So no, don't believe in ghosts. I do like Ghostbusters, though. That movie rocks.

[JDeRouen]

There is so much we don't know or understand about the universe and even our own little part of it... I think we all need to be open to at least the possibility that things beyond what you can see in front of you exist.

Do I believe in ghosts? I don't know. But I don't not believe. I've experienced too much weirdness* in my life to discount anything.



* Knowing exactly when my first wife died though I wasn't there, having several precognitive dreams over my lifetime, etc.

[starsky]

I used to see orbs and mists when I was younger.

turns out we just had a bad furnace and I was inhaling carbon monoxide.

i've seen orbs in pics too! i was told they were ghosts and spirits.

[Mikey]

Forget about orbs in photos

I've see a person in a house that was completely empty besides myself in full light.

They walked down the hall, passed my door and disappeared into the wall.

If someone can logically explain that i'd be happy to listen.

[Brazoo]

There is so much we don't know or understand about the universe and even our own little part of it... I think we all need to be open to at least the possibility that things beyond what you can see in front of you exist.

Do I believe in ghosts? I don't know. But I don't not believe. I've experienced too much weirdness* in my life to discount anything.



* Knowing exactly when my first wife died though I wasn't there, having several precognitive dreams over my lifetime, etc.

It's a good point. When I say 'I don't believe in ghosts' it's based on the fact that I don't think we have any convincing demonstrable evidence for believing in them yet. Our brains and senses are not reliable enough processors of data to use anecdotal experiences as hard evidence - and apart from that there's nothing else to go on.

So a more accurate way of saying it, for me, might be: so far nothing has convinced me of the existence of ghosts.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

Ghosts | Cracked.com

Don C.

[Hector]

... You Have yet to Meet my Miss's ...

[Sandman9580]

Forget about orbs in photos

I've see a person in a house that was completely empty besides myself in full light.

They walked down the hall, passed my door and disappeared into the wall.

If someone can logically explain that i'd be happy to listen.

Was it your house? Are you sure you were alone? Did you see them actually pass through the wall? Were there hallucinogens involved? (I'm being serious.)

[johnmiic]

If Ghosts exist they have to observe the rules of physics like any other piece of matter. There are particles that can pass thru walls and even the whole Earth. Can we in any way measure or detect what particles make a Ghost? People have commented on cold spots in a room. Sounds made by Ghosts. All these should be measurable and detectable because they involve movement of air. We need a device that can scan the atmosphere for rare changes. Could we even trap one like in Ghostbusters to question it? I think that would be the challange.

[Brazoo]

I experienced sleep paralysis on three separate occasions when I was younger. It was pretty awful, but I didn't sense anything "malevolent". I just thought I had something wrong with me.

Looking into it though, I thought it was fascinating how the phenomenon of alien abduction has all these historical precedents everywhere, like in the medieval incubus/succubus legends. It's like our physical nature and limitations interact with the Zeitgeist (to carry on the "spirit" theme here) and then these bizarre afflictions (hysteria, diseases, mental disorders) pop into existence. There's this weird natural selection process at work. (And then it sort of occurs to you that it's not just the bizarre stuff -- it's everything. Language, ideas, memes, frames of thinking. Suddenly reality starts to feel random and arbitrary and contingent...)

Anyway -- I think the infinite complexity of the brain is a lot easier to believe in than ghosts. It's also more responsible, I think. I once read that Stanley Kubrick had trouble thinking through The Shining, because the notion that ghosts (i.e. life after physical death) exist is ultimately a very optimistic assertion -- which he thought diluted the horror. (He seemed to find a kind of reconciliation of this in Full Metal Jacket, though, where the theme is, "Hell is on Earth, and I am in Hell, but I'm alive, and it's better to be alive than dead.") Believing in ghosts seems like an existential form of procrastination. It's saying the burden of exploring the mysteries of being human is too heavy, and anyway, it can wait -- we'll be around forever. Exploring that complexity now means there's more of an immediate burden, and that you have to assume some responsibility. It's saying: let's figure out our own psychic phenomena, and let the neurologists, psychologists, and Margaret Meads of the spirit realm figure out theirs. If they're... y'know, there.

So no, don't believe in ghosts. I do like Ghostbusters, though. That movie rocks.

I think the points you're making are excellent, and think this was really well said, up until you evoke psychic phenomena - which I just don't get.

It IS amazing how memes effect our understanding of the world - but I don't think we need to explain how that happens with phenomena like psychic collective consciousness or something when the regular materialistic mechanics of how memes spread through culture do the exact same thing.

Language is extremely powerful on it's own. I keep hearing and reading about how intertwined the way we think is tied into language. An episode of the podcast WNYC's Radiolab called "Words" explores these ideas. For example, it featured an examination of deaf people in Nicaragua, and how as their sign language developed from the 1970s on and their vocabulary grew, their thinking became more complex generation after generation. (Really great podcast if you guys don't know it).

Basically we can't think about what we can't express - so sometimes our brains work backwards to manipulate what we experience in order to do that.

There are tools our brains use to manipulate what we sense just to fit those cultural models too - to create a 'knowable' experience - things like pareidolia, false memories, hallucination...

[Brazoo]

If Ghosts exist they have to observe the rules of physics like any other piece of matter. There are particles that can pass thru walls and even the whole Earth. Can we in any way measure or detect what particles make a Ghost? People have commented on cold spots in a room. Sounds made by Ghosts. All these should be measurable and detectable because they involve movement of air. We need a device that can scan the atmosphere for rare changes. Could we even trap one like in Ghostbusters to question it? I think that would be the challange.

TOTALLY - It's like everything falling under the umbrella of paranormal beliefs these days tries to manipulate ideas of quantum mechanics, but they don't actually, you know, experiment with those theories - it's all just used as a way to make things sound more complex and technical with out actually BEING technical.