Batman: The Killing Joke gets limited theatrical release

[samurainoir]

Anyone else get the sense that the audience felt like they were in the wrong movie when it opened with the Behind the scenes featurette starting with Hamill as Luke Skywalker in Star Wars? Seemed to cause some confusion by crossing the streams like that. Hamill of course is seen in the live action footage with his Mickey Mouse T-shirt ('cause, y'know, Disney owns him now )

I was kind of amazed at how short it all was collectively, even when they included the padded out Batgirl prologue and 2 DVD extra behind the scenes featurettes. I kind of think I would have been perfectly satisfied with just an hour long straight up adaptation of the Killing Joke. I wonder if that will be a DVD option? to just watch the parts that adapt Killing Joke without the Batgirl lead up.

[samurainoir]

Having watched this on the big screen tonight, I really enjoyed the part that was a straight up adaptation of the Killing Joke.

I was in a packed theatre, and as an indication of how tonally wrong the sex scene was, and the subsequent 2 scenes discussing the sex, the primarily young adult male crowd just howled in collective laughter at those three moments, which was obviously not the intent of the producers to illicit that kind of reaction from an audience.

I'm also firmly against a Bruce/Barbara romantic/sexual relationship of any kind because it diminishes both characters given their backstories and age differences. This is the iron willed Batman we're talking about after all, NOT Lolita or American Beauty (and even in American Beauty, Kevin Spacey's character clues in on how WRONG it would be before he went too far).

However, in the context of what they were trying to accomplish with this movie, it would have worked better if it was left in the PG realm of suggestion rather than made so explicit. They could have cut the scene at the rather shocking kiss, rather than continue to the point where Batgirl pulls off her top (which is where they lost the audience), and left it to the audiences imaginations about how far they took it, rather than again make it explicit in the follow up conversation with her co-worker (where again, they lost the audience).

and for the record, I'm not against #Batsex... in other live action or animated movies, or even comics/graphic novels aimed at a mature audience, I've been perfectly okay with times Batman has had sex with Talia or Catwoman. I'm also a big fan of Barbara/Batgirl's relationship with Dick as it developed in the comics, from a rather sweet crush on Dick's part when they were both age-appropriate teens, to them consummating their attraction many years later as adults. It developed quite naturally and organically within the set of story lines in the comics they were presented. It also showed a great deal of sensitivity around depicting a handicapped character like Babs/Oracle, in a sexual relationship, as a sexual being with adult needs, which I greatly applaud.

#Batsex aside, as much as I appreciate the fact that they were TRYING (unsuccessfully) to mitigate the "Women in Fridges" trope with the prologue section, my main complaint was how separate it was from the main driving spine of the film, which is the relationship between the Joker and Batman. They did their best to build some thematic and emotional bridges leading up to the Killing Joke adaptation, but it felt completely superfluous and tacked on once the Joker shows up.

Mark Hamill really knocked it out of the park as Joker, and showed how much it was worth his coming out of retirement to do this film. Hopefully folks stayed to watch the DVD extras scene after the credits showing Hamill in the recording studio. He created some wonderful contrast with the utterly tragic, pre-Joker, down on his luck, stand up comic. Which went a long way towards us sympathizing with the Joker at the end, desperately longing to prove to Batman that it wasn't just his weakness in escaping into madness from the reality he wasn't able to endure.

The Musical number was also handled amazingly well, staying well within captivating and creepy. Never devolving into campiness or losing the audience into laughing AT the film like they did in the earlier Batgirl segments. The entire funhouse sequence was visually incredible.

In regards to the additional scene tacked on at the end, I thought it worked well as a nice coda and acknowledgement without taking away from the wonderful Killing Joke ending that faded to black. Unfortunately the ugliness of internet discourse spilled over into real life when a male audience member shouted "Totally Unnecessary" as it ended, with a female voice from the audience retorting "It was Necessary". In my opinion, it worked as well as any end credits scene as a nice little bonus for a departing audience, no different than when Hope Van Dyne gets her Wasp costume, or Thor's Hammer shows up at the end of one of the Iron Man films.

[emeraldknight47]

Oh, and the rest of the movie was a very good adaptation of the original comic. Mark Hamill was fantastic, as was Conroy, as usual. There was a nice featurette at the end that showed Hamill doing the voice. Nice stuff.

Chris

Glad to hear the two of them back in the Batverse. Other people have voiced The Batman, but only Kevin Conroy IS The Batman. Same can easily be said of Mark Hamill's Joker. Aside from Cesar Romero, Hamill's voice is the one I hear when I read Joker dialogue.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Oh, and the rest of the movie was a very good adaptation of the original comic. Mark Hamill was fantastic, as was Conroy, as usual. There was a nice featurette at the end that showed Hamill doing the voice. Nice stuff.

Chris

[Earth 2 Chris]

I watched the movie. Imagine this, the internet is making a big deal out of little to nothing. Yes, Batman and Batgirl have rooftop sex. BUT, they build up to it in a manner that makes sense. They both regret it afterwards, as the movie progresses. Batgirl's motivation isn't just shacking up with Batman. You get the impression she grew attracted to him over their 3-year work relationship. It's basically an office romance that gets steamy, and then it leaves everyone a bit awkward.

Am I a huge fan of this? Not really. I didn't like it in follow-ups to BTAS like Batman: Beyond or Mystery of the Batwoman, but it did exist there, and those are holy canon to many. Obviously Bruce and Babs had a fling, and it had to involve sex. Nothing is shown on camera here. Batgirl takes of her cape mask and top to reveal her bra, and that's it.

Bruce Wayne shacked up with Talia in Dark Knight Rises after knowing her for like five minutes and no one blinked.

Now, did they need to put that in this movie? No. I'd argue they needed a Batgirl prologue to the graphic novel for folks to identify with the fact the Joker shot and paralyzed Batgirl. But they didn't need the sex angle, and it did seem to just be there to justify the "R" rating a bit.

But did it totally demean the character of Batgirl for all time. No.

Chris

[PNGwynne]

Unfortunately, unlike Batman and Robin, Batgirl really wasn't given a solid motivation in her debut story in 1967, and every iteration either in the comics or media has been scrambling to come up with a reason for her existence ever since.

Chris

I won't deny the possible sexual undertones in hero-worship, but to me Barbara's motivation was always a combination inspiration, admiration, and hero-worship.

[PNGwynne]

Take a comic that is admittedly iconic, but problematic for its objectification of Batgirl. Then, instead of building her as a more three-dimensional character with her own female agency, add in a creepy relationship that reduces her to a sexual object to the male hero. It sounds almost like they were actively trying to make it worse...

This. And I do think their intention was to make it worse. I don't plan on going out of my way to see this "expansion"--I can reread the GN anytime.

[emeraldknight47]

Just watched said scene in question and I'm having to wonder who read the script and greenlit it. I mean, yeah, what Bruce and Babs do is for more intimated than shown, but it's still nothing, I think, that belongs in a BATMAN feature, animated or otherwise. Looks like DC/WB has decided to take the R-rating ball and run with it as far as they can before there's an outcry from both fans and parents' groups alike. I can almost guarantee you that, if this ever actually even makes it to store shelves, it'll be snapped up by people who will be hoping that WB/DC will yank it quick to avoid any further controversy and then hope to make a quick buck by reselling it on eBay and other outlets for an outrageously inflated price. If memory serves, there was some similar controversy over the "Batman Beyond: The Return of the Joker" movie a few years back and that was still only PG or PG-13....

[jimbutsu]

After watching the trailer and seeing what this looked like it *was* going to be, I couldn't wait to go see this. Now, based on what I've seen in the last couple days, I'm here at home and perfectly content to not be going anywhere.

[comicmike]

"Even if Azzarello disagrees with fans’ reaction or feels attacked, to be so dismissive sours the relationship that fans have with Batgirl, the filmmakers, and DC as a company."

[Hedji]

Where's the like button for all of MIB41's posts in this thread?

I just can't get past the cheap looking animation. The whole point of Killing Joke, for me, was Brian Bolland's pretty artwork. Alan Moore's writing was, well, Alan Moore. Big Deal. But take Bolland's art out of the equation and you really have a diet soda.

[WannabeMego]

wth!!!

[hedrap]

Azzarello did the same crap in his Winder Woman run. Some fantastic ideas that would work as prose. But once you make it "graphic" you're swatting away a younger crowd.

[Hector]

I'm as R-rated as they come, but that's just all kinds of wrong...

[MIB41]

Dear Lord... Is this what the art-form has come to? Do the kids need to leave the room now while the adults have their "mature moment" between two people wearing costumes and capes? How ridiculous. What's next? Batman can't get it up and we get a subplot on Viagra and his desire to feel "whole" again? I think when story points starting broaching these subjects, we have to ask ourselves why we are here.