Title revealed!!

[huedell]

I think most people consider Frankenstein meets the Wolfman a sequel to The Wolfman. Despite Frankenstein's name being listed first, the plot is centered on Larry Talbot seeking a cure for Lycanthropy. Of course the movie does pick up threads from Ghost of Frankenstein.

Now, I don't know for sure what the plot to Batman v. superman will be, but with Cavil playing Superman and it picking up threads from Man of Steel, it qualifies as a sequel to MOS.

If it doesn't center around Superman, then to me it doesn't.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion about the definition of "sequel"--heaven knows the definition could go a lot of ways (and has in the past)...but I was trying to point out something in a certain context, the context being "audience impact post-title announcement".

And, Superman not being the main character, and diluting a "follow-up" with Supes as the central character is one thing---- but with this title in place with Superman's name/nickname not featured in the title alone (or at least top billing)... that it makes it even less a "Superman/MOS sequel" for me.

AND, as said in my previous post, they've totally switched gears on their audience----if only by title. This is NOT Man Of Steel 2 as far as the title goes---heck, it ain't even Superman's name first in the title they chose, and the film may suffer a backlash for that....a backlash worse than "geek/internet critic" backlash: a "full mainstream" backlash.

And THIS post:

I watched MOS and DKR on video (full disclosure: I wasn't a DC reader growing up. All Marvel!). I enjoyed MOS, but found DKR way too bloated and "serious for serious' sake". I will most likely be watching this one on video as well, unless the wife sees it has Ben Affleck and makes me go!

reads like proof in that pudding.

Putting Superman/Man Of Steel featuired in the title and using trailers that featured Superman with the same exact movie being shot would have a much more "Man Of Steel" vibe and encourage fans of that movie to go see "the Superman movie that has smaller appearances from Batman and Wonder Woman". A "true sequel". Not "WB's/DC's desperate business move dressed up as a continuation of the MOS story".

This is more a "JUstice League prequel" than a Man Of Steel" sequel as far as the title gies---and, that means as far as marketing goes until WB decides to display differently, which it looks like they won't. They appear locked into making this a "Batman/Superman" movie---dare-I-say "heavy on the Batman".

[madmarva]

Huedell, you argue again just to argue.

Sequel does have an accepted, defined meaning when referring to media. It's not a sliding scale, define it any way you want. That's total baloney and you know it.


"se·quel [see-kwuhl]
noun
1. a literary work, movie, etc., that is complete in itself but continues the narrative of a preceding work."

The director and writer of the first screenplay for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice have both said the film will deal with the ramifications of the destruction from Man of Steel. The film returns much of the cast from MOS including the star Henry Cavil, Diane Lane, Amy Adams and Lawrence Fishburne. The production company calls it a sequel.

The film is not a solo Superman movie, but it is indeed a sequel to Man of Steel. That is not opinion; it's fact. It is objective, not subjective.

I understand that you would prefer a solo Superman film to a sequel that is indeed acting as an introduction to a Justice League film, but your preference has no bearing at all on whether Batman v. Superman is a sequel to MOS.

[hedrap]

I'd like to raise a practical question at this point...

Is this technically even a "Superman sequel" at this point?

All along, I thought this was supposed to be MOS2.

I thought the title was going to be MOS2: World's Finest or something like the more forshadowy apt MOS2: Dawn Of Justice

Now, if this is to be considered anything "solo" oriented (and with Batman's name first), it might be considered a Batman movie with SUPERMAN as the supporting character.

That said---barring any notable mass public disgust at the obviousness of aping Marvel's success---the title is perfect/very appropriate.

Dude - the first thing I thought was "How is World's Finest NOT the slug"?

It fits more for what they're doing than if it was just a Bats/Supes movie.

I am so perplexed by these WB cats. They really do seem to banking on "You're going to go either way, so we don't give a frack".

Hell, they should have swiped "Batman/Superman: Injustice" and been done with it.

...and Batman is first because he sells better. I used to think it was a bait-n-switch, but Gotham appears to be the central location.

[madmarva]

^ As a comic book reader, I'd have liked for the title to have included World's Finest, too, but outside of comic readers, does "World's Finest" have any draw? I'm guessing Warner thinks it reads old fashioned. Granted, the logo says it all.

[Operation:Mego]

^ As a comic book reader, I'd have liked for the title to have included World's Finest, too, but outside of comic readers, does "World's Finest" have any draw? I'm guessing Warner thinks it reads old fashioned. Granted, the logo says it all.

A non-comic book reading friend of mine actually thought World's Finest was the Justice League.

[PNGwynne]

Why it is a MOS sequel? Simply, because Cavill is the linking and continuing element. The Nolan Batrilogy, whether I liked it or not, is just that: a contained story arc. MOS is a new one, continued in Bats vs. Supes, and evidently springboarding JLA.

Marva has nailed it IMO-I can't believe we're discussing this except as argument for arguments sake. As for Batman being listed first? Hello--Batman in whatever media incarnation rules the DC Universe--it's a moot marketing point. It's often not "my" Batman", but that's irrelevant.

Acknowledging that some dearly-held preferences might be irrelevant can be healthy IMO I love the idea of "world's finest", but I think it's too obscure for the average filmgoer. Plus, it suggests a level of cooperation that I doubt we'll see much, at least at first, in this film.

[huedell]

Huedell, you argue again just to argue.

Sequel does have an accepted, defined meaning when referring to media. It's not a sliding scale, define it any way you want. That's total baloney and you know it.


"se·quel [see-kwuhl]
noun
1. a literary work, movie, etc., that is complete in itself but continues the narrative of a preceding work."

The director and writer of the first screenplay for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice have both said the film will deal with the ramifications of the destruction from Man of Steel. The film returns much of the cast from MOS including the star Henry Cavil, Diane Lane, Amy Adams and Lawrence Fishburne. The production company calls it a sequel.

The film is not a solo Superman movie, but it is indeed a sequel to Man of Steel. That is not opinion; it's fact. It is objective, not subjective.

I understand that you would prefer a solo Superman film to a sequel that is indeed acting as an introduction to a Justice League film, but your preference has no bearing at all on whether Batman v. Superman is a sequel to MOS.

My "preference"?

My preference is for you to get my point.

"Arguing just to argue"?

No... I can't be "arguing" when I'm not communicating your point.

Again... I'm misunderstood.

Your defining of "sequel" is unnecessary.

As I said above (paraphrased) "sequels can be defined a number of ways".

My definition in this thread's context?

IT IS: "A title that features Superman's name in top billing, preferably a "Man Of Steel 2" prefix---and a movie that centers on Superman as the main character with any other heroes as side characters."---and THAT is not my "preference"---that's my POINT in this thread. Why? Because these are the things that will affect BOX OFFICE---these are not things that I really care about (unlike many in this thread who DO care a LOT, as evidenced by the mocking of and the aversion to DC aping Marvel).

As usual, i'm shootin' the bull with you, and you're taking it way too seriously to the point where you appear to be missing my point, and instead are trotting out dictionary definitions---I mean, you can't see my point after this much explanation?

If I throw the word "sequel" out the window, would THAT help? Bottom line: This hugely obvious pre-fabricated title may cause a more huge backlash than WB/DC anticipates.

your preference has no bearing at all on whether Batman v. Superman is a sequel to MOS.

I'm not worried about "my" preference of the definition of sequel. One more time: I'm worried about the millions of others who will laugh at the this film being a "Man Of Steel" sequel, and possibly balk on the film because of it.

[huedell]

Dude - the first thing I thought was "How is World's Finest NOT the slug"?

It fits more for what they're doing than if it was just a Bats/Supes movie.

I am so perplexed by these WB cats. They really do seem to banking on "You're going to go either way, so we don't give a frack".

Hell, they should have swiped "Batman/Superman: Injustice" and been done with it.

...and Batman is first because he sells better. I used to think it was a bait-n-switch, but Gotham appears to be the central location.

So.... that isn't really "them not giving a frack". Eh?

Seriously, though... such a shame... and an insult to DC's legacy not to us "World's Finest" in this scenario.

They think they'll "sell better" if they use Batman's name first AND if they use the "Justice" nod it'll, at the least, that'll set up for marketing for "Justice League" pre-Justice League film.

^ As a comic book reader, I'd have liked for the title to have included World's Finest, too, but outside of comic readers, does "World's Finest" have any draw? I'm guessing Warner thinks it reads old fashioned. Granted, the logo says it all.

"World's Finest" has cache if only to infuse this new film with decades-formed legitimacy. So now they've decided to trade that legit nod to Bats/Supes with a likely to be perceived as pretentious nod to the "Justice League" name. The question becomes: "Will their gamble work?"

Why it is a MOS sequel? Simply, because Cavill is the linking and continuing element. The Nolan Batrilogy, whether I liked it or not, is just that: a contained story arc. MOS is a new one, continued in Bats vs. Supes, and evidently springboarding JLA.

Read above for "why" this is an "argument". I don't care what the definition of "sequel" means when WB is doing everything they can to REDEFINE what a MOS sequel SHOULD be, and I'm trying to discuss how that may be perceived by audiences.

As for Batman being listed first? Hello--Batman in whatever media incarnation rules the DC Universe--it's a moot marketing point. It's often not "my" Batman", but that's irrelevant.

Well, I never said it SHOULD be relevant. And what you said about "Batman ruling the DCU and taht's why he's being listed first"? Well, that's a major element in my discussion here as far as how the mainstream will react when they swallow this bold move. 'WHAT? This is a BATMAN movie now? I thought this was going to be MAN OF STEEL 2---and this appears to be nothing more than an Avengers inspired money-grab. I'm staying home."

Acknowledging that some dearly-held preferences might be irrelevant can be healthy IMO I love the idea of "world's finest", but I think it's too obscure for the average filmgoer. Plus, it suggests a level of cooperation that I doubt we'll see much, at least at first, in this film.

Ultimately, it may or may not have cache based on it's decades formed legitimacy, but my belief is thatthis new film will suffer more for not focusing on Supes' name or the "MOS" moniker in it's lead up than the notably less consequential inclusion of "World's Finest" in it's title.

[The Toyroom]

^ As a comic book reader, I'd have liked for the title to have included World's Finest, too, but outside of comic readers, does "World's Finest" have any draw? I'm guessing Warner thinks it reads old fashioned. Granted, the logo says it all.

"World's Finest", the comic, hasn't been published since Jan 1986. 28 years ago. And Superman and Batman stopped working as a tight, cohesive, FRIENDLY team since that time. The Byrne "Man of Steel" mini-series was launched in the summer of '86 and it was established in #3 that Supes and Bats were far from being best buddies in the, then new, post Crisis continuity. Their relationship has thawed somewhat over the ensuing years throughout various reboots and timelines but I can see why DC/WB would think that the WF team moniker is no longer valid.

[madmarva]

Huedell, if you truly believe the addition of Batman is going to create a backlash that hurts the box office of the Man of Steel sequel, that's your prerogative.

I disagree. Other than adding the Avengers to the sequel - which of course is absurd - there's no character addition The WB could have made that would further guarantee box office success than Batman.

I just didn't see any value in addressing it because it is a subjective point, and our opinions are too far apart for any headway to be made.

[Bruce Banner]

Updated teaser logo with the title added.

[kingdom warrior]

I dig it...will pass judgement when i actually see it......Batman's new costume is what will draw me in even more.

[huedell]

Huedell, if you truly believe the addition of Batman is going to create a backlash that hurts the box office of the Man of Steel sequel, that's your prerogative.

I disagree. Other than adding the Avengers to the sequel - which of course is absurd - there's no character addition The WB could have made that would further guarantee box office success than Batman.

I just didn't see any value in addressing it because it is a subjective point, and our opinions are too far apart for any headway to be made.

Yes...true... but if you're saying things like: "...if you truly believe the addition of Batman is going to create a backlash that hurts the box office of the Man of Steel sequel..." then we're not even understanding each other so we can agree to disagree properly.

Adding Batman in to this film is a great idea if handled in a great way both onscreen AND in marketing the film (and, in essence the whole cinematic DCU).

Because of the title they chose, I'm assuming that a lot of the audience will be more aware they're being manipulated (via the Avenger's success eliminating a true MOS2) due to the aspect that there's no featuring of "Superman (top-billed)" or "Man Of Steel" in the title... hopefully enough are smart like MM poster Random Axe who noted that WB are indeed being BRAVE by abandoning "Superman (top-billed)" or "Man Of Steel" in the title. As in: "Hey--dang it all---we're switching gears in the cinematic DCU and we're proud!"

I mean, all things being equal? Me? I think the title is perfect for what the movie IS: A Justice League prequel. I'm just questioning how the mainstream will react.

[Operation:Mego]

New Batmobile teasers:

[hedrap]

I like how all the hype-talk about Gadot getting ripped for the part is slowly turning out to be a crock. There was no way she was going to put on 10-15 pounds of muscle because it would be impossible for her to take any other roles, lose the mass, and then put it back on for JLA shooting.

I tend to believe the costume talk around the WW leather jacket era design being incorporated. Something's telling me she's not going to be from Themyscira as we know it, also.