Amazing Spider-Man 2 adds another villain...the RHINO!

[Hector]

Again, this goes for fictional characters, not real live historical people.

[Hector]

I care.

And lame is a matter of opinion. I happen to think he's awesome. I've come to accept a black Nick Fury...or Nick fury Jr. as he's now being called...I'm less okay with the Kingpin...MCD is a great actor, but I think he missed the mark with the character. Regardless, I don't like the race of ANY character being changed. I'm not being anti-minority...Ben Kinsley should not be playing the Mandarin either, IMO. They couldn't find one Chinese actor out of billions to play him?

If we say race doesn't matter in casting, how long until gender becomes irrelevant too? Will we accept Wolverina? The Green Goblinette? Wonder Whoa Man?

Characters should remain true to how they were created and written. That's all I'm saying.

How about David Carradine playing Kwai Chang Caine in Kung or Johnny Depp playing Tonto?

Please don't say Depp is part Native American therefore he's free to play Tonto, because if he's considered Native American, than I'm German, lol.

Again, I'm OK with Carradine playing a Chinese, and while at first I objected to Depp playing Tonto (it's more like being sick and tired of Depp playing everybody, period), I'm OK with it now.

So you are either for or against this, it's gotta be 100% consistency here.

[Hector]

Most comic book fans have no idea who Kingsley is, yeah, he might have an Oscar under his belt, but the man is not exactly a box office attraction. You think he has more fans that someone like Jackie Chan or Jet Li? Of course not, lol.

Having said that, I don't care who plays the Mandarin, as long as it's not Kim Kardashian, lol.

[ctc]

>I don't like the race of ANY character being changed.

It's an interesting point for discussion. I was having a talk with a couple friends the other day about how the passage of time changes the context of symbols, ideas, etc. For example.... and bear with me, it comes back to Spidey.... take Batman. His origin: as a kid he sees a crook kill his parents, fuelling his quest for justice. At some point it was established that they were all at the movies.... "Mark of Zorro," wasn't it? Well, that was a contemporary film for the actual era of Bats' inception; the 40's. It wouldn't be unreasonable for a well to do gent and his family to go to the pictures at that time 'cos movies were all the rage. But how appropriate is it for someone as wealthy as the Waynes to attend a regular theater? Is that something that happens any more? Would the fabulously wealthy attend a neighborhood theater? (Hell; was it appropriate THEN for a rich family to visit a theater in "Crime Alley?")

On top of that; superhero time dilation changes the nature of the film they did/would see. For a contemporary Batman you'd expect them to see a film from the 80's or 90's. (Assuming a 30 year old, or so Batman.) Having them see a Zorro film from the 40's would be weird. That kind of thing they could do at home. So even something as straightforward as this origin gets complicated by the passage of time.

How does this relate to the current discussion? Well.... a lot of characters were created in a time when it was weird to see non-white folks in a comic. Maybe not by design, but that was the case. Nowadays it's no big deal; time has changed the context of things. That in mind, I don't think it's a big deal in a lot of cases to change the ethnicity of a character. Provided that ethinicity isn't a major part of the character. It's jarring in a comic, since there's (usually) a thru-line; but for a film, it might seem weird to the audience if every main character in every permutation in every film is a white dude.

'Course, I personally would prefer a whole new character.... but that's not gonna happen. The whole point is to appropriate a known name, no matter how minor. You're more likely to see Spidey fight "Humbug" than a new baddie in any film.

>They couldn't find one Chinese actor out of billions to play him?

Plenty; but tying in with my last point they wouldn't have the name recognition Kinsley has. It's all about the name, which is why you see the same ones swirl around over and over. It's what the fans want.

>how long until gender becomes irrelevant too?

That's an interesting one too. We've already seen that sort of thing.... with the new Galactica, for instance.... so it's not entirely unexpected. I could see it in some cases; but you'd have to be careful of changing the dynamic. Female Jimmy Olsen is problematic since an audience will expect some sort of romantic entanglement at some point. Female SpiderMan requires a name change. (Maybe. Folks were okay with female Starbuck....)

I think when you talk about superheroes and translating them to different media, or transposing them through time you have a weird effect. Superheroes tend to have very curt and minimal underlying structures, story-wise. It makes them adaptable, since the core of the character is pretty compact. 'Course THAT causes problems since the fans are gonna read a lot of themselves into the characters, and it means that even a minor change can have huge effects.

>Will we accept Wolverina?

Rancor. Or X-23.

>The Green Goblinette?

Has this one been done?

>Wonder Whoa Man?

Copyright time!

Don C.

[Earth 2 Chris]

If we say race doesn't matter in casting, how long until gender becomes irrelevant too? Will we accept Wolverina? The Green Goblinette? Wonder Whoa Man?

Well, we may have Superman's Gal Pal, Jenny Olsen coming up, so we'll have to wait and see...

Chris

[enyawd72]

But Rhino? Who bloody cares what race he is.

Rhino is a lame villain anyway...we all should care even less who plays him.

I care.

And lame is a matter of opinion. I happen to think he's awesome. I've come to accept a black Nick Fury...or Nick fury Jr. as he's now being called...I'm less okay with the Kingpin...MCD is a great actor, but I think he missed the mark with the character. Regardless, I don't like the race of ANY character being changed. I'm not being anti-minority...Ben Kinsley should not be playing the Mandarin either, IMO. They couldn't find one Chinese actor out of billions to play him?

If we say race doesn't matter in casting, how long until gender becomes irrelevant too? Will we accept Wolverina? The Green Goblinette? Wonder Whoa Man?

Characters should remain true to how they were created and written. That's all I'm saying.

[Hector]

At least Giamatti is the right color.

It's a comic book character, not a historical figure, lol.

Abe Lincoln played by a black guy, OK, that would be silly.

But Rhino? Who bloody cares what race he is...he could be purple for all I care.

Rhino is a lame villain anyway...we all should care even less who plays him...I hope is Lucy Liu...at least then, Rhino would be hot and interesting to look at, lol.

For major iconic characters such as Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, etc, I'd agree with you. But for a minor villain such as Rhino? Nah.

BTW, Michael Clarke Duncan played the Kingpin, and he turned out fine.

I'm not being anti-white, I have no objections to David Carradine playing Kwai Chang Caine in Kung Fu either, it's cool by me.

Wait a minute! Isn't Rhino gray?

[kingdom warrior]

Isn't the Hulk controlled by a different studio? Not sure cross-polination of foes will be possible....

I figured that...but I'm thinking eventually Marvel Studios will get Spiderman back down the road then.....once Marvel has all their characters under one
banner then we can see Villain cross overs like the comics.......

[enyawd72]

You took the words right outta my mouth.

At least Giamatti is the right color. I'm not too thrilled with Electro being black or the lack of costume. Yes, I realize he's not a major character, but I still don't like it. He shouldn't be black. I'm also ticked that the Mandarin in Iron Man 3 isn't Chinese.
At least with the Rhino, the costume is an absolutely integral part of the character. They can't do him without it, unlike Electro.

[Hector]

Another stupid casting choice.....should have got Brock Lesnar, not some short pudgy dude.

Lesnar definitely has the right look for Rhino, but he's a bad actor even by WWE standards, lol.

[Hector]

So, we have riots when Electro is played by Jamie Foxx but a middle aged, diminutive actor, best known for playing whiny weasels is cast as the Rhino, eschews no outrage?

Was Wallace Shawn busy?

You took the words right outta my mouth.

[MIB41]

Marvel has final say over Spidey now. This isn't the early 2k's anymore, where Sony could brush them aside as know-nothings.

Feige and company are in for every move. Do not believe if this was at Disney, it would turn out any different.

Sorry but that is incorrect. Marvel Comics sold many of their characters' film rights to various studios, such as Universal, Fox, and Sony. Because the X-Men and Spider-Man films were so incredibly successful, Marvel Comics decided to open up their own film studio, Marvel Studios.They also re-obtained Hulk and Namor, who were previously under the Universal Studios name. With Spider-Man doing so well at Sony and X-Men doing so well at Fox, neither of those studios would dare give up any of those franchises for anything. If Spider-Man were to ever meet Captain America in the Avengers movie, Marvel/Disney would get the pants sued off of them, because he's Sony's baby. So here's which rights lie:

1) Sony- Spider-Man and Ghost Rider (and all related villains, characters, etc.)
2) Fox- X-Men, Daredevil, and the Fantastic Four (and all related villains, characters, etc.)
3) Marvel Studios/Disney- All the characters that aren't affiliated with Spider-Man, Ghost Rider, X-Men, Daredevil, and the Fantastic Four.

[The Toyroom]

Most likely, whatever version origin they use, he will be transformed into the Rhino, most likely CGI since that's the way they go now anyway.He'll probably be as big as the Hulk and since he's also a Hulk villain, He may be used in a future Hulk movie project.....

Isn't the Hulk controlled by a different studio? Not sure cross-polination of foes will be possible....

[Cosmicman]

I hate this movie with a passion...now they are doing a sequel? Am I that old where they had to reboot the Spidey franchise?

[hedrap]

It's like anything. I guess you have to see it before a final judgement can be established. But the reasoning here sure looks bizarre. I'm getting the same vibes on this that I got on the Lizard and you saw how badly THAT turned out. Paul Giamatti as Rhino reeks of camp. My hope is as soon as Sony has gone bankrupt butchering Spider-man in this new series, they will have to let Marvel Studios take it back. Then we can get back to quality story telling.

Marvel has final say over Spidey now. This isn't the early 2k's anymore, where Sony could brush them aside as know-nothings.

Feige and company are in for every move. Do not believe if this was at Disney, it would turn out any different.