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If we say race doesn't matter in casting, how long until gender becomes irrelevant too? Will we accept Wolverina? The Green Goblinette? Wonder Whoa Man?
Chris
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Well, we may have Superman's Gal Pal, Jenny Olsen coming up, so we'll have to wait and see...
Chris -
>I don't like the race of ANY character being changed.
It's an interesting point for discussion. I was having a talk with a couple friends the other day about how the passage of time changes the context of symbols, ideas, etc. For example.... and bear with me, it comes back to Spidey.... take Batman. His origin: as a kid he sees a crook kill his parents, fuelling his quest for justice. At some point it was established that they were all at the movies.... "Mark of Zorro," wasn't it? Well, that was a contemporary film for the actual era of Bats' inception; the 40's. It wouldn't be unreasonable for a well to do gent and his family to go to the pictures at that time 'cos movies were all the rage. But how appropriate is it for someone as wealthy as the Waynes to attend a regular theater? Is that something that happens any more? Would the fabulously wealthy attend a neighborhood theater? (Hell; was it appropriate THEN for a rich family to visit a theater in "Crime Alley?")
On top of that; superhero time dilation changes the nature of the film they did/would see. For a contemporary Batman you'd expect them to see a film from the 80's or 90's. (Assuming a 30 year old, or so Batman.) Having them see a Zorro film from the 40's would be weird. That kind of thing they could do at home. So even something as straightforward as this origin gets complicated by the passage of time.
How does this relate to the current discussion? Well.... a lot of characters were created in a time when it was weird to see non-white folks in a comic. Maybe not by design, but that was the case. Nowadays it's no big deal; time has changed the context of things. That in mind, I don't think it's a big deal in a lot of cases to change the ethnicity of a character. Provided that ethinicity isn't a major part of the character. It's jarring in a comic, since there's (usually) a thru-line; but for a film, it might seem weird to the audience if every main character in every permutation in every film is a white dude.
'Course, I personally would prefer a whole new character.... but that's not gonna happen. The whole point is to appropriate a known name, no matter how minor. You're more likely to see Spidey fight "Humbug" than a new baddie in any film.
>They couldn't find one Chinese actor out of billions to play him?
Plenty; but tying in with my last point they wouldn't have the name recognition Kinsley has. It's all about the name, which is why you see the same ones swirl around over and over. It's what the fans want.
>how long until gender becomes irrelevant too?
That's an interesting one too. We've already seen that sort of thing.... with the new Galactica, for instance.... so it's not entirely unexpected. I could see it in some cases; but you'd have to be careful of changing the dynamic. Female Jimmy Olsen is problematic since an audience will expect some sort of romantic entanglement at some point. Female SpiderMan requires a name change. (Maybe. Folks were okay with female Starbuck....)
I think when you talk about superheroes and translating them to different media, or transposing them through time you have a weird effect. Superheroes tend to have very curt and minimal underlying structures, story-wise. It makes them adaptable, since the core of the character is pretty compact. 'Course THAT causes problems since the fans are gonna read a lot of themselves into the characters, and it means that even a minor change can have huge effects.
>Will we accept Wolverina?
Rancor. Or X-23.
>The Green Goblinette?
Has this one been done?
>Wonder Whoa Man?
Copyright time!
Don C.Comment
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Most comic book fans have no idea who Kingsley is, yeah, he might have an Oscar under his belt, but the man is not exactly a box office attraction. You think he has more fans that someone like Jackie Chan or Jet Li? Of course not, lol.
Having said that, I don't care who plays the Mandarin, as long as it's not Kim Kardashian, lol.sigpicComment
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How about David Carradine playing Kwai Chang Caine in Kung or Johnny Depp playing Tonto?
Please don't say Depp is part Native American therefore he's free to play Tonto, because if he's considered Native American, than I'm German, lol.
Again, I'm OK with Carradine playing a Chinese, and while at first I objected to Depp playing Tonto (it's more like being sick and tired of Depp playing everybody, period), I'm OK with it now.
So you are either for or against this, it's gotta be 100% consistency here.sigpicComment
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Again, this goes for fictional characters, not real live historical people.sigpicComment
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It's all friendly discussion in here, fellas...
sigpicComment
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Like I said before, big time iconic characters should be left alone and be portrayed as they were originally created, I agree with you there.
My point from the very beginning is that minor comic book characters such as the Rhino (and I do consider him minor), it shouldn't matter nearly as much, that's all I'm saying.sigpicComment
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I absolutely think Tonto should have been played by an actual Indian and not Johnny Depp. I'm sure there are many Native American actors wallowing in obscurity that would have loved to play such an iconic role. Never thought much about Carradine, but only because I never watched Kung Fu. A Chinese actor would have been much better.Comment
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Bruce Lee wanted that role, but was bypassed for Carradine, that was the sign of the times.
Anyway, good civil discussion, you made valid points in your favor.
Now, off to a Monster slice of pizza from Cybelle's, lol.sigpicComment
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BTW, I loved Carradine in Kung Fu...sorry Bruce, nothing personal, lol.sigpicComment
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According to Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story, Lee even pitched the concept of the Kung-Fu series, and some greedy TV execs stole it. That's the crime there.
ChrisComment
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Yeah, that's the sad part right there for suresigpicComment
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>Most comic book fans have no idea who Kingsley is
Maybe; but what they're looking at here I suspect is how the Spiderman comic sells 75,000 issues a month whereas the film will probably be seen by tens of millions of people. Marketing has rendered the comic fan superfluous when it comes to comic characters.
Don C.Comment
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Shot of Paul Giamatti in ASM2... (minus the Rhino suit as of yet)...
PUNY HUMANS!Comment
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