Next up for "reboot": Alan Scott

[madmarva]

If DC would finish off those "Crisis on Multiple Earths" TPBs I'd be a little happier..

Totally agree. The All-Star Squadron Showcase edition did come out this week, so maybe we'll get some more of the JLA-JSA crossovers.

[Random Axe]

I've got that Comicology book on my watch list. We'll see...

[boynightwing]

I found this on Wikipedia

[samurainoir]

^^^
Waid and Ross used Alan Scott just to avoid all the Kyle/Hal/parallax controversy. Although they did smartly avoid saying anything when the original KC series ran initially, which allowed fans the option of imagining whichever Green Lantern, Flash or Hawkman they wanted in those roles. Although later tie ins and ancillary product did make certain characters explicit, I don't think that even Waid and Ross agreed 100% on all the characters. (I think Waid made Flash Wally in The Kingdom sequel event, but Ross might have imagined him to be an amalgamated jay/barry/wally Flash of some kind embodying all the avatars of the speed force).

ALEX ROSS Wizard Millennium Edition ~ 100+ pages of art, sealed HC .. NM .. 9.4 | eBay


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[samurainoir]

Golden Age Green Lantern DC Superhero Eaglemoss #41 41 Alan Scott | eBay


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DC Archives 11 All Star Comics Justice Society America | eBay
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ALL STAR COMICS VOLUME 1 DC ARCHIVES JUSTICE SOCIETY | eBay


GOLDEN AGE GREEN LANTERN ORIGINAL PROFILE HAND DRAWN MARTIN NODELL SIGNED w/COA | eBay

[ctc]

>DC should have created a Ultimate DC universe but they went this route. It's inevitable, it will fail and things will work there way back.

I think I agree with everything you’ve said except the “fail” part. They’ve been selling a whole mess of funnybooks, which is their goal. So they did succeed, and when the novelty wears off they’ll do it again. They’ve been doing it for decades. I think the cycle happens faster now, but it’s still the same old schtick.

>Wasn't that because the GA versions of GL, Flash, The Atom and Hawkman had been out of print for several years that National/Julie Schwartz figured nobody would remember them?

Yup; and they already owned the rights, so they went and moderned them up. (Hence Green Lantern being a space-cop instead of a dude with a magic lamp for example.) It’s the same thing we’ve been inundated with movie-wise the last decade, with all the reimagined remakes.

>But comic fandom was really starting to take off and people DID remember the Golden Age versions and began to inquire as to what ever happened to them...thus "The Flash of Two Worlds" story.

Partly; but the main push came form people working in the biz who remembered the old characters.

>The original characters were left intact.

I think that’s a sticking point too.... By making them part of the “modern” milieu you invariably change them; especially when you do new stories with those characters. I think at the time you had a crop of more accepting fans who didn’t get bent out of shape over changes. (Although I can remember the odd letter in some of the books from the early 60's.) I think you also had less emphasis put on things; the hype for new stuff was fairly innocuous (no internet or tertiary industry putting stuff like Wizard or Amazing Heroes out.... although DC and Marvel both tried!) ....and the readers weren’t as obsessive. (Perhaps owing to the first point.)

>I would like to see DC do a small classic line.

That’s one of the things I’ve wondered about too. They could easily do stories in the classic setting, and a faux classic style. Kinda like the “.... Family” books from the 70's that would detail stuff going on in the alternate settings. I think part of the problem is they don’t want to split the brand. I also suspect there’d be a minimal audience.... although doing a series as a digital comic would make that commercially feasible since you wouldn’t have to worry about print or shipping. (The irony THERE being the reluctance of an old school fan to go digital.)

Don C.

[samurainoir]

I've recently been flipping through old fanzines, and I think we've really forgotten how upset the most vocal parts of fandom were post-Crisis in the eighties with so many wholesale changes to beloved characters. It really is not dissimilar to what is happening here, other than the Internet being able to create a much more reactive response environment to every little change... We've moved away from the age of persuasion to instantaneous mobile "like" and "dislike". as don points out, probably contracts that cycle of novelty and reinvention (which in many ways, like most product, is actually really superficial and cosmetic at best).

Thus we have JSA as a fan favourite with top talent and good sales one moment, to falling out of favour within a couple of years and getting swept up in the overall movement of company wide reinvention. You know if Geoff Johns were still on the title it might have been a softer reboot given the leeway he has with his titles ( and his corporate title)

If changes were going to happen anyways, I'm fairly whatever about the Earth 2 stuff, they at least have my interest slightly piqued by giving it to James Robinson... Who was actually de facto behind the last JSA reboot (at least initially)

[The Toyroom]

Thus we have JSA as a fan favourite with top talent and good sales one moment, to falling out of favour within a couple of years and getting swept up in the overall movement of company wide reinvention. You know if Geoff Johns were still on the title it might have been a softer reboot given the leeway he has with his titles ( and his corporate title)

Everytime Johns leaves a title it seems to go to hell...JSA, Teen Titans, Hawkman all benefitted from greatly from his writing, but as soon as he
left there was a downward spiral that resulted in the books being handed off constantly or new directions taken that ultimately kill the sales and the mojo.

It will be interesting to see what happens when he eventually leaves Green Lantern and Aquaman...

[thunderbolt]

GL will benefit from Johns departing.

[samurainoir]

What I'm finding interesting is the "mentoring" that appears to be going on at Marvel with some of their established a-list initially being paired with a newer writer for launches and transitions... Which seems to have worked successfully with writers like Matt Fraction initially paired with Ed Brubaker on Iron Fist or Jonathan Hickman with Brian Bendis on secret warriors. Those two now helm top titles like Thor, Iron Man and Fantastic Four. Or even the huge tag teaming on top talent they are doing with Abengers Vs X-men.

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Even Geoff Johns was initially paired with David Goyer who in turn was initially paired with James Robinson on JLA (and Hawman IIRC).

JLA JSA Virtue and Vice GN Geoff Johns David Goyer NM | eBay


The Hawkman Omnibus 1 by James Robinson and Geoff Johns (2012, Hardcover) (9781401232221) | eBay
Hawkman. (2002). 1-7. Full Run. James Robinson, | eBay


I think the biggest problem DC is experiencing right now is that there are only two "name" writers currently in their stable that guarantees large readership no matter what they are attached to Johns and Morrison. Hopefully their next tier with guys like Jeff Lemire and Scott Snyder coming up, they can shore things up. They do have a great deal of talent, but much of it seems to be traditionally mid-list in terms of sales (and I say this as a great fan of most stuff Gail Simone and Brian Azzerello do).

It would be interesting to see Geoff Jons paired with someone before he jumps off a best selling title... Helping to set a consistent direction and tone for an incoming writer.

[ctc]

>I think the biggest problem DC is experiencing right now is that there are only two "name" writers currently in their stable that guarantees large readership no matter what they are attached to Johns and Morrison.

Y'know.... I think the problem might be that other than the diehards, comic readers don't worry so much about that sort of thing. They pick up what they like to read. Now, when I say diehards I'm referring to old school fans. OUR generation, who came up through the era of "designer comics." The kids today don't seem to worry about that sort of thing so much.

It's been hard for the Big Two and a Half to shake off the trends of the 90's. The reboots, the non-events.... stuff that turns off the casual reader. (AND the diehards!) They still seem to be playing for the speculators who've long since moved on. (Until some book makes it big, then they'll all be back.... *sigh*) Although from a sales perspective the technique still works, to some degree. (I remember a past discussion demonstrated that Marvel and DC haven't been pulling in new readers, but swapping around the existing ones every few months.) At least enough that the ol' "if it 'aint broke" addage can be applied to asuage any cognitive disonnance for the head honchos.

>They do have a great deal of talent, but much of it seems to be traditionally mid-list in terms of sales (and I say this as a great fan of most stuff Gail Simone and Brian Azzerello do).

I'm betting that's 'cos it's just different enough to throw the current fans, and the potential NEW fans who might like them don't see the books 'cos for the last 15 years they've had no reason to set foot into a comic shop. It's a Catch-22; you've got the material, but no way to get it to the folks who'd actually care.

Don C.

[samurainoir]

I'm betting that's 'cos it's just different enough to throw the current fans, and the potential NEW fans who might like them don't see the books 'cos for the last 15 years they've had no reason to set foot into a comic shop. It's a Catch-22; you've got the material, but no way to get it to the folks who'd actually care.

Don C.

For the most part I agree with the snake eating the tail for the past 15 years in the direct market, but part of this big New 52 marketing push is into the digital market, but there is no real hard numbers or even metrics on this with how the digital distribution has been scattered across platforms.

It will be interesting to see if there is new readership via itunes or comicology or on the Kindle Fire or whatever. I don't think there is any risk of cannibalizing the existing aging comic shop readership with this new content, although I'm mostly observing via anecdote that I don't know many other tradition pamphet reading comics fans going digital as I have.

[ctc]

>part of this big New 52 marketing push is into the digital market, but there is no real hard numbers or even metrics on this with how the digital distribution has been scattered across platforms.

Yeah. I wonder if we're not seeing the data because it's been disappointing to the execs who're still pushing for digital 'cos that's the way the future's going, or if they don't really know how to coelate the data.

>I don't think there is any risk of cannibalizing the existing aging comic shop readership with this new content, although I'm mostly observing via anecdote that I don't know many other tradition pamphet reading comics fans going digital as I have.

I think it's another Catch-22: they want to make their material more accessable, but the current oldster fans are admant against digital so they don't care; and the new fans who're okay with the format still aren't getting any encouragement to read the books. Adding Batman or Jim Lee isn't going to mean anything to the Naruto generation. (Same with the superhero (dead/not dead/dead/not dead/new origin!" cycle.)

In a way it might do them good to do a complete.... ACTUALLY complete.... overhaul, like the silver age was. Break free and present the new reader with new characters, and not call a Mulligan a year from now, or try to weave the old stuff into the new mix. Problems with that: there really isn't a current, viable new template for superhero stories; and you'd still have to bridge the interest gap so's new readers would want to give the stuff a read. (Plus the inevitable hue and cry from the old guard....)

Don C.

[bobws]

Well it's good top see how many people are thinking along similar lines as i am here.
I wished DC at least kept about 10 titles in the old universe. i was just telling my nephew how i wished they would put out a 100 page book every other month that just kept the old universe stories going forward. and then a 50 page book every month that would tell stories set back in the DC universe of 1978, before crisis and while the was a multiverse. JSA JLA Teen Titans all like thgey were during the DC Explosion/Implosion.

I think the difference of the changes made after Crisis and those done now versus those done in the late fifties and early sixties ,was that superhero comics were almost dead then. only supes bats and ww were still around 5 comics basically. so they decided to update the older ones who were no longer around for 5 or so years. Yes the average age of readers were 6 to 10, not 16 to 55! and a new audience was expected every 5 years. However publishers know that now it's different, but refuse to accept that. If they really want kids to read more they need to make comics that tie into thier movies and develop from there. Marvel came out with the X-Men movie, which didn't fit in to the timeline of thier comic so it was no help in bringing in new readers.( well maybe some) But then they came out with a new comic series (Ultimate) and new cartoon (X-Men Evolution) and neither one helped out or tied into the movie franchise. it wasted the momentum of the movie. DC so needs to tie in it's comics to other media. I love the new Young Justice series and the GL one. however if your going to relaunch your whole line then you should have made both of these show in harmony with the
NU52 and drew the attention to the comics. I know YJ came out first , but they must have been talking about this in time to plan better. The problem now comes up, do you make any movies based on these versions or wait to see if they stick. Or make them in the old universe stlye and mess up fans anyway?

[samurainoir]

Was this series any good?
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