The Newest Avenger is....

[VintageMike]

^^^
Arguably it's the presence of wolverine and spiderman that allows a diverse team like Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Strange, wong, mockingbird, iron fist, squirrel girl and Victoria hand to succeed in this difficult marketplace. If they had launched this book with that cast of characters, without Spidey and Wolverine and called them Heroes For Hire (which they have done quite a few times), it would have sunk down the sales charts like a rock and been cancelled. How many times are they going to relaunch Outsiders and have it canceled before they realize sales are better with Batman on the team? They had him on the team in the last relaunch, and then they go and take him out again.

Instead... +spiderman+wolverine=new Avengers=$$$, and voila, you have Luke Cage and Squirrel Girl suddenly becoming fan favorite characters clawing their way up from the D-list by the webbed bootstraps.

Squirrel girl even gets to pwn Wolverine in a brawl and then fight giant nazi robots while defending the cage-jones baby in a solo issue. In the top ten sales list as well... Not going to happen if they had called that issue Fear Itself Squirrel Girl #1.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6...156-ghjhgf.png

I would agree with this also. I've seen too many "fun" title canceled due to poor sales. If adding a few A-listers and calling it "Avengers" will give a fun book a chance, I'll all for it. Somewhat OT but my advice to all is if you're unsatisfied with the current direction don't buy trhe books and work on your back issue collection. I just attended one of two monthly shows I go to and for about $50-$60 came home with 27 books ranging mid 70's to mid 80's.

[VintageMike]

"Avengers" is the new X-men. The name sells so they tie different teams into it. "New Avengers" is the modern Defenders for instance. The regular "Avengers" title is reserved for more a more "classic" roster. Actually at this point in time I enjoy the three main books.

[samurainoir]

^^^
I really like Destroyer, Machine man (particularly Warren Ellis' new wacky Next Wave version currently running around), Frankenstein et al as well.

Given Bendis' tendency to give new characters a shot in his hundred different Avengers titles... ie) Sentry, Ares, Marvel Boy/Protector, Daken, Echo/Nomad, Jessica Jones etc, I don't doubt that these guys might stand a shot at being Avengers.

[thunderbolt]

Arguably they are drawing on 40 plus years of Avengers as well as the entire Marvel Universe to fill out the roster of six Avengers books a month. Is there any Past Avenger who hasn't shown up in one of these books in the last few years? Even Wasp got in her screen time during Mighty Avengers (along with Tigra and Wonderman), and Scarlet Witch is back in Avengers The Children's Crusade. Vision... Also part of Young Avengers. Hank pym... Avengers academy and initiative, not to mention mighty.

Moon Knight is running around Secret Avengers. Beyond that, it's down to Thunderstrike, rage, the female captain marvel and d-man who haven't been seen in an Avengers book lately. I'd take squirrel girl over any if them.

Falcon maybe, but he's always said he didn't want to be an Avenger in the first place, and seems well served in Captain America the last few years.

Well, if its new blood Bendis is after there are plenty of non XMen, FF, rooftop vigilantes to choose from, too. Kirkman's revamped Destroyer, Machine Man, Frankenstein, characters from the Twelve, Man-Wolf and so on. I just don't see how slapping Wolverine on yet another cover really sells that many more books. Lets see them sell books with a story instead of gimmicks. This is the lowest point I've seen the Avengers sink since the Gilgamesh days.

[ctc]

>As kids It's not like we ever wondered how Superman had time to hang out with the justice league, batman in world's finest, random guest stars in DC comics presents, and multiple titles and guest appearances in other titles.

I did. It was one of the things that bothered me about superheroes when I was a kid. But I recognize that my comic upbringing was somewhat odd: I preferred the independents, undergrounds and foreign stuff, which were more event oriented in that stuff happened, stayed happened and happened in a segment of time and space. It wasn’t something I was consciously aware of, but it made the stuff I liked seem more “real” than the superhero stuff.

>So what the heck is she doing in the Fantastic Four? Isn't she busy enough in Uncanny and Astonishing X-men as well as being the Queen of Wakanda?

Like that. The bad thing about “entertainment by committee” is that you get mixes of whatever’s popular. Or more accurately; what some executive editor THINKS is popular. (Is it ninjas yet?) So you get the same stuff, over and over.... occasionally overwritten, often added to, (he’s a ninja.... and a mutant.... who was in WW2.... and a secret agent.... cyborg.... who was around for hundreds of years.... and has an EYEPATCH!) And eventually totally washed out.*

*NOTE: Love stories are the worst for this, since there’s a tendency to keep the main characters in a relationship.... and to play it as if said relation is the “One.” Their one true love, that changes every few years making the whole thing kinda shallow and adolescent.

....anyhoo; I came to terms with the idea in my late 20's, when I actually started reading superhero stuff. It’s a problem with the hardware: you’ve got a limited amount of events you can have happen, and a BIG limit on the stuff you can actually monkey with. One of the reasons team comics took off was ‘cos you could change stuff without changing stuff by changing the roster. So you’d get a chance to recycle plots with new characters and could pack the team with whatever’s currently “the thing.”

It was also a little easier way back when. Comic fans had a life expectancy of around 3 years; after that they’d move on to other interests and the publishers could monkey with stuff relatively flack-free. Long-term fans were used to the idea of change and seemed to accept it better. (Imagine the hue and cry if DC tried the “Earth-B” thing nowadays. “Whaddyamean Bruce Wayne has an evil brother?!?!?”)

>I just find it to be a waste of a slot in the team that could be taken up by a different character and provide a more diverse group of characters instead of more of the same.
>Arguably it's the presence of wolverine and spiderman that allows a diverse team like Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Strange, wong, mockingbird, iron fist, squirrel girl and Victoria hand to succeed in this difficult marketplace.

Y’know.... you’re BOTH right, and it’s a big Catch-22. Entertainment requires novelty.... but if you’re TOO novel folks tend to get upset. So you gotta fudge it: adding the popular characters ensures sales, and assured sales allows some experimenting with less popular characters.

Don C.

[samurainoir]

More importantly... Mohawk or au natural? What is your pref people?

[The Toyroom]

^ Cripes! Black Panther looks almost as big as The Thing! What th'?

[samurainoir]

Oh yeah... So what the heck is she doing in the Fantastic Four? Isn't she busy enough in Uncanny and Astonishing X-men as well as being the Queen of Wakanda?


Was she the old new Black Panther as well?


And why did she have to go and marry the Black Panther when Forge is the love if her life?


And who will lead the x-men?

[The Toyroom]

ah... You mean Spiderman and Wolverine? (just to bring this topic back around)

The topic was Storm....do try and keep up

[samurainoir]

I'm sure Busiek would have written the story to focus on the characters everyone really wanted to see, instead of Bendis' 5th-stringers.

ah... You mean Spiderman and Wolverine? (just to bring this topic back around)
Or maybe Triathlon? Silver claw? Justice and Firestar?
I think it's safe to say that most runs on the Avengers rely on a formula of heavy hitter name characters supplemented with lower tier characters who are newer creations or couldn't sustain their own books... Including favorites like Beast, Wonderman and Hawkeye.

Perez's OCD would have compelled him to scribble in all the 5th stringers Where's Waldo style. Like D-man.

[The Toyroom]

Shang Chi is an Avenger now as well.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jcEmWiHymhE/Ti5S5K4-4_I/AAAAAAAABPI/0-L-hb1gZoU/s1600/SECRET_AVENGERS_18_COVER.jpg

Imagine if George Perez had to draw Avengers JLA today?

I'm sure Busiek would have written the story to focus on the characters everyone really wanted to see, instead of Bendis' 5th-stringers. If I recall he
was able to use the whole universe changing gimmick to bring quite a few characters to the forefront who were not on either current JLA or Avengers team (like Hal Jordan and Barry Allen and Hawkeye).

[samurainoir]

Squirrel Girl? I'd rather have Gnort on the JLA...

Bwahaha! the team up of the century.

[samurainoir]

Shang Chi is an Avenger now as well.


Imagine if George Perez had to draw Avengers JLA today?

[The Toyroom]

Squirrel Girl? I'd rather have Gnort on the JLA...

[samurainoir]

Is it seriously that hard to draw from the 40 plus years of members to fill out a team that they have to rely on Spider-Man and Squirrell Girl?

Arguably they are drawing on 40 plus years of Avengers as well as the entire Marvel Universe to fill out the roster of six Avengers books a month. Is there any Past Avenger who hasn't shown up in one of these books in the last few years? Even Wasp got in her screen time during Mighty Avengers (along with Tigra and Wonderman), and Scarlet Witch is back in Avengers The Children's Crusade. Vision... Also part of Young Avengers. Hank pym... Avengers academy and initiative, not to mention mighty.

Moon Knight is running around Secret Avengers. Beyond that, it's down to Thunderstrike, rage, the female captain marvel and d-man who haven't been seen in an Avengers book lately. I'd take squirrel girl over any if them.

Falcon maybe, but he's always said he didn't want to be an Avenger in the first place, and seems well served in Captain America the last few years.