New Spider-Man

[samurainoir]

The real question is, "why not?"

Thank you aquatroy. I don't really think I've heard anything compelling beyond "Peter Parker is Spider-man". Or "It's just PC"

Well Peter Parker still is Spider-man 99.9% of the time. Except when he's retired and his daughter has taken over. Or when his was long gone in 2099. Or when he was a race car driver in Japan. Or when he's this new character in the Ultimate Universe.

As for the "PC" aspect... if it means that we can all sit around here having a very reasoned and civilized chat about it on the Mego Museum. Not such a bad thing to share our opinions and exchange ideas on the subject. It's the rest of the internet that has me cringing horribly right now.

[ctc]

>Can't comic book artists and writers create NEW Superheroes?

They CAN; but nobody will care. Folks are pretty entrenched with what they like and don’t.... hence why guys like Batman and Wolverine end up in EVERYTHING. New stuff is a risk for the publisher, a risk for the reader, and generally passed over.

Unless you’re a new reader and haven’t formed them expectations yet.

>Why does this still bother folks so much?

I hafta agree. If you’ve been reading Marvel and/or DC for ANY length of time you’ve been subjected to TONS of gimmicks. Like I’ve said before; I think part of why folks are so recalcitrant against this sort of thing NOW is ‘cos, as an older reader you’ve seen so many the novelty has worn off. Hence why so many people complaining of a side-universe Parker of colour didn’t lose their minds as kids when Rhodes took over as Iron Man.

The difference isn’t the books, it’s you.

ODD BIT: This is technically the SECOND time Spidey was a black dude. Morgan Freeman used to play Spidey WAY back in the day.

>As for the "PC" aspect... if it means that we can all sit around here having a very reasoned and civilized chat about it on the Mego Museum.

“PC” is a derivative of the “appeal to authority” fallacy. It’s a discussion ender ‘cos it’s seen as being unarguable and carried a LOT of connotation. Sorta like calling someone a “commie” in the 1950's.... or a “witch” in the 1500's. Once the term comes out, there’s an automatic assumption of wrong, and anyone who doesn’t see it is “part of the problem.”

Case in point; if new Petey IS “PC,” why is that bad? (And no, you can’t say “because it’s SOOOO PC!” That’s another logic fallacy called “circular logic.”)

Don C.

[Meule]

Hey...as a Latino myself...I don't like the killing of Parker to justify a new Spidey...it doesn't sit well with me.

What happened?

Can't comic book artists and writers create NEW Superheroes?

I'm all for Black and Latino superheroes...but for Christ's sake...create new ones...don't mess with the original characters.

Oh, I can see it coming already...Will Smith's son, Jaden, starring as the new Spidey...coming to a theater near you...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R7FO8kE78sc/TbLX76I17cI/AAAAAAAAAaI/7JNOu6v4rcs/s1600/funkyenterainer+%25284%2529.jpg

It almost looks as if this was the plan along. First Karate Kid, now Spiderman

[Hector]

It almost looks as if this was the plan along. First Karate Kid, now Spiderman

Yep.

I bet you ANYTHING...Will Smith is doing his DAMNDEST in making that happen...you can bet the bank on it.

[The Bat]

So you started buying it again KNOWING that they were killing Peter Parker. What did you think of the final storyline itself?

You're not moved in the slightest by the funeral scenes in Ultimate Fallout?

Yeah, I was liking it. But since he had already died and they were continuing with Ultimate: Fallout, I naturally assumed they planned to bring Peter back. Oh how WRONG I was.

[The Bat]

In the end this argument is pointless...because this book will be going down faster than the Titanic.

[MIB41]

Just for the record, I LOVE black heroes:

The Falcon - Alone or as a team up with Cap. He's great.
Luke Cage, Power Man - I would LOVE to have a Mego of Him! Love the classic yellow and blue outfit from the 70's.
The Panther - What needs to be said about him? He's perfect.
The Black Vulcan - Great addition to the Superfriends when I was a kid.
War Machine - And yeah, I remember where he had replaced Tony as Iron man for a spell. Had no problems there either. Why? Because the STORY was good and it made sense. Heck I even loved it when the Prowler impersonated Spidey to save Parker's secret identity!

Changes in movies that haven't bothered me - Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury. Works great! And I think his personality fits that character well. Michael Clarke Duncan as King Pin was also excellent. I thought his portrayal read better and was more impressive than getting someone to match the comic.But those are films that sometimes need a different cast to ground the character in a reality audiences can believe. These examples are, in my mind, great choices because they sell the IDEA of the character better than simply copying the comic cosmetically.

But this underlying suggestion that because I object to a different Spider-man identity, makes me a closet case racist (and I should hang my head) is way out of bounds. It's about story, not about attracting a different market share. To me when you start changing identities for cultural reasons, you are paying the ultimate disrespect to that segment of people. It's a manipulation to get their money and feed the company's bottom line. It has NOTHING to do with advocating diversity.

And when it comes to business, it's whatever sells. If there's scores of Spider-man titles with Peter Parker making money, then that speaks to the common sense reasoning that the concept is very popular. And am I to assume that only white people buy Peter Parker comics? Come on.... Let's be honest. Their killing off a character because he's white. THAT action speaks more to racial indifference than anything. This is an iconic hero who is just a geeky kid from Queens, NY. THAT is the story. THAT is the expectation. If Marvel wants to bring a black character into those stories, that's great! If they want to make another black superhero, that's awesome! But please don't try and sell me on this flimsy notion that racial diversity and harmony comes from asking one culture to stand aside while another assumes the role. Diversity and harmony means standing side by side as equals in the same frame. Not replacing one for the other. I no more want a black/Hispanic Spider-man than I want a white-bread Falcon. Superheroes are woven into the very fabric of our culture. Marvel will quickly find out people don't like their heroes messed with. 'Nuff said.

[enyawd72]

WRONG!! I read and cared about the Ultimate Spiderman book for YEARS! So don't speak for me please. A year or two ago I did cancel all my Ultimate books...because I buy too many Comics and had to make cuts somewhere.

Exactly!
Samurainoir, you have a tendency to act as if you are the end all, be all authority on everything comics here. YOU'RE NOT.
And your standard operating procedure of posting a dozen large images to make your point is REALLY freaking annoying.

Ultimate Spider-man IS the same character. They simply reintroduced him to a new generation by establishing his origin in a modern setting, and if you think this change won't have ramifications, need I remind you that Ultimate Nick Fury somehow ended up being the ONLY Nick Fury in all of Marvel's movies.

[The Toyroom]

I could care less either way....I don't follow the Ultimate line....

[david_b]

Hey...as a Latino myself...I don't like the killing of Parker to justify a new Spidey...it doesn't sit well with me.

What happened?

Can't comic book artists and writers create NEW Superheroes?

I'm all for Black and Latino superheroes...but for Christ's sake...create new ones...don't mess with the original characters.

Oh, I can see it coming already...Will Smith's son, Jaden, starring as the new Spidey...coming to a theater near you...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R7FO8kE78sc/TbLX76I17cI/AAAAAAAAAaI/7JNOu6v4rcs/s1600/funkyenterainer+%25284%2529.jpg

Agreed, totally Agreed.

I see NO reason to have Spidey be a minority. If our current President can grow up being a huge fan of a white superhero.., why is a 'white superhero' all of a sudden 'out of touch' with current fan base? It is insulting.

Like Hector basically said, 'Get your own heroes'.., don't cop out with changing the old ones we know and love..'

Guess what? Big Spoiler here..: Minorities for generations loved them too.

So, since Ben Grimm was supposidly Jewish all these years (per Lee and Kirby), is the fact it wasn't played up in the movies enough insulting to the Jewish community..?

Where does it end..?

Should Wonder Woman be recast as a minority male..?

[knight errant00]

And there's more:

Marvel Comics reveal new Spider Man could be gay in the future | Mail Online

What I see as the problem here isn't that the new character is all these things, but instead the rather calculated, corporate way they're trying to cram all the diversity into one character. And I do agree, if Bendis wants to do all these things and have something "fresh", if Marvel really, honestly believes this is to reach an audience looking for this in a character, then why not create an awesome new character to do all this? Not tied to any other character's look or roots?

[Drzsmith]

I just wonder if this is just so DC doesnt get the number 1 spot on the charts for September?

[ctc]

>It's about story, not about attracting a different market share. To me when you start changing identities for cultural reasons, you are paying the ultimate disrespect to that segment of people.

Fair enough, but I think the problem is that the Fury change was okay ‘cos the story was good, and we don’t know if this story is any good or not yet. So being displeased with the new Spidey is kinda jumping the gun. Even decrying it ‘cos it’s a change for cultural reasons is a bit premature. Wasn’t the Fury change done for the same reason?

>Ultimate Spider-man IS the same character.

In a different universe, so it kinda matters even less overall. Even if it wasn’t, there’s no reason it couldn’t happen in-story. I think every major hero has died and been replaced now.... at least once. Spidey’s already a franchaise; is one more version that odious?

....and since the Ultimates is an alternate Marvel universe, I say GO NUTS! Make it REALLY different! Make Galactus an X-Man! Make Captain America a bad guy! Make Luke Cage a woman! Nick Fury is really an elder god that SHIELD has coerced into serving them! Elect White Rabbit president! Go all “What If?” on that sucker! If it’s SUPPOSED to be a different universe, make it DIFFERENT! Changing the ethnicity of a character for whom ethnicity never really mattered isn’t that big a deal.

>why not create an awesome new character to do all this?

There’d be no hype. I think everyone’s right; that this IS a publicity stunt, but it’s hardly the first, deepest or most questionable. If the announcement was “Did’ja hear; NEWGUY is black AND hispanic, AND maybe gay!” nobody would care. There’s no impact. But say something like “next issue; Power Girl gets a breast reduction!” and you get people’s attention.

....and there’s NO SUCH THING as bad attention....

Don C.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

....thinkin' on this, and how folks think a new character would serve better in this role; haven't they MADE a new character out of this? He's not a retcon Peter Parker; he's someone else. (Okay; he's the Scarlet Spider with a better outfit....) I think we all know that when Ultimates Parker comes back, this new guy will get a slightly altered outfit and new monicker anyhoo....

Don C.

[kingdom warrior]

would anyone given two sheets if this was the return of Hector Ayala the White Tiger?......I think not. Marvel Knows how to spin it to get people talking. Afro hispanic Spidey BFD........