Racists are stupid... and not for obvious reasons!

[saildog]

I totally agree - is it coming across that I'm arguing against this? I don't see how.

I wasn't pointing you or anyone else in particular out, my friend.

Purely my thoughts on the matter based on experience totally outside of this thread and not a response to anyone here.

I actually think this has been a very civil discussion, with valid points, given the subject matter. (Credit to the character of the vast majority of MM posters.)

I come from a military background and we were always taught to focus on the group, without distinction to difference....because there is always SOMETHING, in order to get a job done and that always worked pretty well.

In all seriousness, being able to hate or be hated, is a "luxury" that comes from not having enough challenges to overcome...in my humble experience.

[Joe90]

Proper names to call blacks have changed so many times lately it's hard to keep up on what's proper today.

Years ago my old man used to call them negros ...

He wasn't being racist --- that was just the proper name at the time.

It's the Portuguese word for black. English speakers have historically picked up words and phrases, with perfect Sang Froid, from other languages. It's been a predilection of the language. Certainly some English speakers are a little Gung Ho about it. Let The List speak for itself. Furthermore, these English Speakers have used names for many peoples in the World based upon people who they have dealt with. For instance, the name given the Lakota People, Sioux, comes from the Algonquin language. As does names for rivers (eg Mississippi) and cities (eg Chicago). Somehow the word Negro has been demonized because it's a little too close to that other N-Word. By the way, I have a problem with the context in which that word is used these days, and by who...

Let me see if I can put this in the simplest of terms for you. I just don't think the "add on" is necessary. I feel it's more respectful to refer to my fellow black, colored, African-Americans....simply AS Americans. Isn't that called equality?

I agree. Some how the hyphenation seems more like a qualifier. Put it into context: European-American sounds kind of dorky.

[Brazoo]

I actually think this has been a very civil discussion, with valid points, given the subject matter. (Credit to the character of the vast majority of MM posters.)

I hope so. I'm certainly not trying to be uncivil and I'm not holding any grudge with The Bat. I'm just as frustrated as he is - but not actually angry with him or anything. I guess we don't understand each other - and I'm fine with that. We both tried!

[Brazoo]

I agree. Some how the hyphenation seems more like a qualifier. Put it into context: European-American sounds kind of dorky.

I'm not trying to be deliberately obtuse and I'm not trying to be frustrating on purpose - I seriously just don't get what you guys mean.

If someone asked me what my background was I'd probably say Canadian-Eastern European. If they wanted more specifics, and I cared to get into it I might describe the specific countries my parents and grand parents were from.

It seems like a totally normal way to answer that question to me.

[Random Axe]

I just discovered this thread has gone on for 8 pages. That's a lot of typing, quoting and disagreement over the casting of a character that probably has less than five minutes of screen time. I'm all for a healthy, logical discussion of race/ethnicity, but let's maintain perspective. Hemidall, Guardian of the Rainbow Bridge, is hardly worth the bickering and banter.

Scott

[Hector]

I just discovered this thread has gone on for 8 pages.

It's merely two pages for me.

Go to your settings...change it to 40 posts per page...

[Mikey]

It's merely two pages for me.

Go to your settings...change it to 40 posts per page...

Wish there was a setting to take that darn animated Amazon add off the right side of the main forum page on Retro Tan

I HATE THAT THING !!!!!!!!!!

[samurainoir]

My point is simply that we're ALL immigrants in America, and that it's not necessary to add "Irish, African, Polish, Italian" or whatever in from of American. When I meet someone I don't introduce myself as "Irish-American".

Given the lack of audible inflection in the typed word, I think it's the sarky emoticon that seems to suggest that you view the term Irish-American as somehow being a negative label. A smiley might be more appropriate if you want to indicate a positive tone of jest?

For me it read something like this...
"When I meet someone, I don't introduce myself as a n-word."
I apologize if I mis-read your intent and Irish-pride.

I think it's interesting to note that that there are a few Canadians conversing in this mix, and even though we're in the same ballpark of agreement, even we aren't sympatico on the details. Which is probably the casual use of the term "Politically Correct" is a moving target at best depending on who's trying to define it. For me, it has never been about any kind of fascistic Big Brother language-police (as it has been mis-handled). It's a tool for broadening understanding between groups and opening up dialogue, which is exactly what we are doing here.

What I think the two major viewpoints we have here in this discussion is exactly what separates Canadians and Americans. Multiculturalism vs Assimilation in our respective top-down immigration policies.

I don't want to presume to speak for the Bat, but my assumption is that his view is the Melting Pot. You come to American and you become American. There doesn't need to be any other distinction in a nation of equals.

Canadian cultural mosaic? It doesn't always come easy, and here was an issue that really polarized opinions two decades ago in our country, but for how we stand today, I can't think of an image that says it better...


I know we're wandering waaaay off topic, but it's been a good discussion so far, and I've been thinking quite a bit lately about the idea of Canadian Multiculturalism vs Assimilation when I caught the news of Canada's first Muslim Mayor while I was overseas (where any news from Canada is a Big Deal).

A fascinating debate (at least to me) between two gentlemen on opposing sides of the Canadian multiculturalism vs assimilation issue, one of them the new mayor of Calgary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBbbQfS98nA

[Brazoo]

I don't want to presume to speak for the Bat, but my assumption is that his view is the Melting Pot. You come to American and you become American. There doesn't need to be any other distinction in a nation of equals.

Yeah - I get the spirit of that idea - but in a practical sense nationality and background or ethnicity are two different things.

Maybe - MAYBE - white people have no need to ever think about their nationality as being separate from their background, but it's a whole different experience for visual minorities because they're wearing their background on their face.

On the other end I've never heard a black American describe his nationality as African-American. I've never asked a black guy if he was American and then got corrected "actually I'm African-American".

So, I don't get how it's an issue of national identity - I thought it was an issue of black people choosing to be called 'African-American' over the colonial and outdated term 'negro'.

[The Bat]

I don't want to presume to speak for the Bat, but my assumption is that his view is the Melting Pot. You come to American and you become American. There doesn't need to be any other distinction in a nation of equals.

Thank you...that's it. Now I'll add no more to this thread...it's already gone on too long.

[samurainoir]

Yeah - I get the spirit of that idea - but in a practical sense nationality and background or ethnicity are two different things.

Maybe - MAYBE - white people have no need to ever think about their nationality as being separate from their background, but it's a whole different experience for visual minorities because they're wearing their background on their face.

On the other end I've never heard a black American describe his nationality as African-American. I've never asked a black guy if he was American and then got corrected "actually I'm African-American".
abl
So, I don't get how it's an issue of national identity - I thought it was an issue of black people choosing to be called 'African-American' over the colonial and outdated term 'negro'.

You are completely right, and I've no doubt caused a great deal of thread drift by trying to bridge the ideas expressed while setting up my own soapbox.

It helps to know that we're both speaking as fellas with a personal stake in multicultural relations! (as I keep reminding myself regarding the forthcoming onslaught of my extended in-laws starting tomorrow... Irish and Quebecois are a volatile mix)

[draconianguard]

The article was way too long to read.It just seems like people are taking this too seriously. The funny thing is, my brother called me about the trailer regarding a black actor playing a Norse character. He thought it was ridiculous as it historically made no sense. His wife is black, so racism is definitely not the issue Hollywood will continue to change the race or add races of characters too draw in more viewers. Changing Pete Ross from white to black on Smallville wasn't a big deal to me. The Asgardian being black seems a bit ridiculous.

[ctc]

>MAYBE - white people have no need to ever think about their nationality as being separate from their background

I dunno.... I've played the race card a few times. When I get sick of the Christmas music I tell folks Christmas is an affront to my ancestors. They usually get confused enough to stop. I think it really depends on the person.

>The Asgardian being black seems a bit ridiculous.

It can, 'cos the character has been previously established as a white dude, and when you think of Nordic characters.... no matter how tenuously so.... you think white guys. Is it a BIG deal? Not really; but it IS something that should be addressed in-continuity, since it creates an anomally for a Norse-based mythos. 'Course, it's an easy fix: the Asgardians are like the Eternals in the Marvel universe and come in all sorts of phenotypes. Any historical portrayals of ethnicity are the result of misidentification/bias from old human cultures.

Don C.

[Mikey]

This thread is basically 2 guys talking back and forth

[Megotu]

At college a guy I knew taught me that black and African American are not synonomous. He was described as African American while he was in the room and he blew up about how his family were native Australians. Meanwhile my cousin who is 4th generation South African was roundly screamed at by a government worker because she filled out her paperwork for college as African American and the worker said white South Africans don't count.