The Avengers! Earth's Mightiest Diplomats

[samurainoir]

Putting comments about the art aside, anyone else noticing the trend in Bendis' books towards increasing scenes involving negotiations between Good Guys and Bad Guys, Bad Guys and Bad Guys, and Good Guys and Good Guys?

Not that there isn't the fair share of Kick'splodin' as the Time War in Avengers and Magic War in New Avengers heats up, but at the heart of it is an oddly "real world" tendency to attempt diplomacy as one solution to the conflicts either before or after the punching.



As role models go, I'm thinking this is a pretty interesting about-face in light of the nineties trend (and much of Superhero history) which textually manifests itself as "Might Makes Right".

Or do readers generally just want them to get through the talky bits so that they can get to the punchy bits?

[The Toyroom]

I'm sorry but I can't get past the artwork.....it sucks

[samurainoir]

I'm sorry but I can't get past the artwork.....it sucks

I'm sure that keeps JR jr weeping into his big pile of Kick *** money well into the dead of night.

So do you like the talky parts or the punching stuff Anthony?

[LadyZod]

Did ANYBODY that works at Marvel today even flip through Drawing Superheroes The Marvel Way?

This is one big page of absolutely no action. I want fighting.

[Brazoo]

I don't love or hate the drawings - but the colouring really throws it off for me. Trying to add detail and realism by adding layers of shades and highlights just doesn't work for me at all.

I'm only genuinely excited by action scenes in comics when they're done by a handful of artists anyway - most the time I just end up glossing over them. I can kinda see how The Avengers specifically might take a more diplomatic approach to conflict - so it kinda fits their M.O. (they're still government affiliated, right?)

On the other hand - I think a superhero comic shouldn't loose sight of what it is. Even if the characters are just talking, I think they could have found better ways to highlight the physical threat visually to make this page more exciting. Even with the fire in the background and Ultron's hight difference to Iron Man this page looks pretty dull to me - like a tv show storyboard.

[Brazoo]

Did ANYBODY that works at Marvel today even flip through Drawing Superheroes The Marvel Way?

I totally agree - there are some fundamental skills missing here for sure - talking or not.

[ctc]

>at the heart of it is an oddly "real world" tendency to attempt diplomacy as one solution to the conflicts either before or after the punching

It's probably an attempt to add more character to the characters. Superheroes have a lot of "GRRR! Me punch now!!!" moments, and it's hard to draw anything out from that. I think you hit it with your reference to 90's books; novelty is a big part of entertainment, and talking is a novelty for supers.... ESPECIALLY after the 90's. (A friend once pointed out that every line of dialogue in an early Image book was a derivation of "I'm angry!")

Plus; writers have been noticed again the last few years, and you don't get a lot of chance to show that off with "okay, then HE punches back, and a wall explodes!"

Don C.

[ctc]

>there are some fundamental skills missing here for sure

That's ANOTHER 90's holdover. A lot of 90's comics had no sense of composition, story, flow.... they were collections of pinups and poses slathered on a page.

Don C.

[Brazoo]

>there are some fundamental skills missing here for sure

That's ANOTHER 90's holdover. A lot of 90's comics had no sense of composition, story, flow.... they were collections of pinups and poses slathered on a page.

Don C.

I totally agree.

[The Toyroom]

I'm sure that keeps JR jr weeping into his big pile of Kick *** money well into the dead of night.

Just stating my opinion And I'm sure the success of KickA$$ has more to do with the story than his art

So do you like the talky parts or the punching stuff Anthony?

I prefer more action plus the fact that Bendis' writing is really getting on my nerves lately....since Secret Invasion actually....

[BlackKnight]

Avengers Relaunch Anyone ?

[johnmiic]

I don't see the big deal here. This is like 1 out of 20-30 pages? I remember a similar talk-talk/face-to-face involving the Silver Surfer and Thanos way back in the `90's when Thanos was brought back.

I think the real question is: Does negotiating with Ultron make any sense? Can the Avengers ally themselves with Ultron? This is one of those moments where the plot-line takes a turn and heroes try to have a truce with a villain. If the villain agrees the reader is left wondering when will the villain turn on the heroes and betray them to his advantage? It's been done countless times before.

I Like JR Jr's art. He draws chiseled characters. Frank Miller, Walt Simonson & Mike Mignnola draw in similar ways. He's in good company.

[samurainoir]

Just stating my opinion

And I'm sure the success of KickA$$ has more to do with the story than his art

*ahem*

[The Toyroom]

^ Once again, I was just stating my opinion...By all means feel free to buy up my share of issues featuring JRJR's horrible artwork so you can contribute to his big pile of money...Knock yourself out...How's that for sarcasm?

[samurainoir]

On the other hand - I think a superhero comic shouldn't loose sight of what it is. Even if the characters are just talking, I think they could have found better ways to highlight the physical threat visually to make this page more exciting. Even with the fire in the background and Ultron's hight difference to Iron Man this page looks pretty dull to me - like a tv show storyboard.

The physical threats are there in the script. There is an entire page devoted to Wolverine and Ultron verbalizing whether or not Wolverine should sheath his claws and how much the consequences would impact either party. In the old days the probably would have shown Wolverine finding the weak point in Ultron's joints, and then Ultron would upload into a new body. Instead of going through that cliche, they throw it away in a few lines of dialogue, that functions as part of the negotiations.

I'm pretty very indifferent to JR jr myself, and it would be interesting to see how someone like McNivan or Bagley would handle this. Both artists have shown a degree of versatility in expression and body language. Bagley in particular after drawing 100+ issues of Bendis' Ultimate Spidey scripts.