Ready for a Black Peter Parker/Spiderman?

[samurainoir]

Blackface is not so much as a tradition as a racist holdover. I'm surprised that the Opera company would have had such poor taste and judgement.

It's not just the COC, apparently a Blackface Otello is still an acceptable staple in all the major Opera venues around the world, including New York's Metropolitan Opera,



The Royal Opera in London,


and all over Europe.



"Yellowface" is also accepted in any given performance of M Butterfly, although the latest one at the COC actually had a black woman performing as the asian Butterfly.


Although it might be easier to reconcile the various representations of Asia in classical opera as being more of a mythical representation that has more in common with imaginary lands like Narnia or Middle Earth than any actual historical Asia.

[Werewolf]

I recently made the faux-pas of taking a friend of Afro-Canadian ethnicity to the Canadian Opera Company's presentation of Otello, ignorant of the fact that the lead would be performing in Black-Face.

Blackface is not so much as a tradition as a racist holdover. I'm surprised that the Opera company would have had such poor taste and judgement. Black face should have gone the way of the minstrel shows. On a related note, In Elizabethan theatre women were forbidden by law to act in plays. So female characters were played by young boys.

I do not like "blackface," "redface" or young boys playing female roles. These are not traditions and should be left in the past.

[samurainoir]

I think your Shakespeare comparison is right on the money Scott.

I recently made the faux-pas of taking a friend of Afro-Canadian ethnicity to the Canadian Opera Company's presentation of Otello, ignorant of the fact that the lead would be performing in Black-Face. Of course there are no greater "Purists" than Opera fans who will argue that Otello has been traditionally played in Black-Face for centuries. My friend was not amused to say the least. It probably didn't help that she was the only black person in the audience as far as I could see.

[megoscott]

I always think of Shakespeare when these discussions come up. They've done Hamlet or Romeo and Juliet or Macbeth in hundreds of different ways, different time periods, different genders and nationalities and races, with original language or vastly updated language. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, it always offends someone's sensibilities, always irritates the purists. But the bottom line is they are great characters and great themes and are not dependent on their original iterations.

Of course, they've had 400 years to become what they are. It'll be interesting to see what these comic characters are in another 50 years.

Comic characters are first and foremost visual creations, so it's very very difficult and we all have such strong lifetime associations with them in a certain form.

I don't want to see Superman without the classic costume, I didn't even like the muted red cape in the last movie....so it would be very very odd to see a black Superman. Is there anyone whiter than Superman? Spider-Man is one thing, the hero wears a full mask and shows no skin color.

[Werewolf]

Unfortunately, this is the only one I know of that has head-lined a mainstream commercial picture, but there are probably better candidates that I am unaware of.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PjETEQ8gO7...reek+%2301.jpg

I think Nia Vardalos is very pretty. But at 47 she is not a good fit for Wonder Woman. If I were to cast Wonder Woman, I would avoid hollywood starlets and pop divas and cast an unknown that fits the part.

[samurainoir]

Being a Greek female Amazon is essential to the character. Her gender, physical characteristics and background makes her who she is and are important. Anything else isn't Wonder Woman.

Given the vagueness of exactly where Themiscyra really exixts, would they have to cast a woman of strictly Greek ethnicity, or could we open it up to all women of Mediterranean descent?

Is there currently a popular Greek actress that you would cast as Wonder Woman?

Unfortunately, this is the only one I know of that has head-lined a mainstream commercial picture, but there are probably better candidates that I am unaware of.

[samurainoir]

>Peter is totally wigging out because his house-mate Johnny Storm the Human Torch is crushing on Spider-woman who is secretly Peter's female Clone

HAW! I would SOOOOO read that, if I thought it was being handled with at least as much wit and depth as a “Three’s Company” episode.

Don C.

To some extent, it might be argued that Three's Company was the "knock on the door" for a dialogue on television centred around their farcical approach to sexuality, which would eventually lead to such enlightened programming like Queer as Folk and the new incarnation of Doctor Who.

Don, just imagine if Jack Tripper had been pretending to be a "Furry" instead! Perhaps Furry Pride would be in a much more advanced place than today's plushy-phobic society. We'd instead be watching Furry as Folk on cable, and Captain Jack would still be multi-sexual, except he'd have the head of a Fox.

[REMOVED]

I think that dancing is a a big bonus skill for superheroes and heroines.... Just like the new Spiderman... However, there are other dragwonderwomen who dance better than that one, not that I am really qualified to be a dance judge. I like him better than say, Lynda Carter or Kathy Lee..... but they were ok....

[Werewolf]

What? Wonder Woman already IS a short Asian guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvTVi...eature=related

You realize you are making my point for for me, right?

[REMOVED]

Changing Wonder Woman into a short Asian guy isn't Wonder Woman anymore. Being a Greek female Amazon is essential to the character. Her gender, physical characteristics and background makes her who she is and are important. Anything else isn't Wonder Woman.

What? Wonder Woman already IS a short Asian guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvTVi...eature=related

[Werewolf]

I think of all the things you COULD change, these are the least important

Changing Wonder Woman into a short Asian guy isn't Wonder Woman anymore. Being a Greek female Amazon is essential to the character. Her gender, physical characteristics and background makes her who she is and are important. Anything else isn't Wonder Woman.

[ctc]

>what's.. the.. fricken'.. point..??

Don’t you mean FRACKIN’ point?

Sorry.... couldn’t resist.

>I don't like changing the race and genders of characters

I think of all the things you COULD change, these are the least important but they don’t bode well for the overall story ‘cos it shows an immediate willingness to mess with stuff, and pull ideas in that aren’t part of the source material; thus bringing it all a little closer to “everything else.” For someone like Spidey it’s not a big deal ‘cos his ethnicity isn’t part of the story at all. Hell; for MOST superheroes it’s not a big deal. They’re essentially cyphers, not full characters. You can monkey with them a lot and not damage them. (Check out the different eras for any long running super and you’ll see.)

>it suggests some people take continuity so seriously that they think they are real

The problem there is that “continuity” was a BIG selling point for superhero books in the mid 80's, and we’re still living with the fallout.

>What really bugs me, though, is when people feel like they own the characters to the point where a license holder can't do anything

THAT’S something I’ve pondered for a while; how people decide what’s “off model” for a character. “Batman wouldn’t do that!” and yet, there it is, he DID. I think that’s partly ‘cos “designer comics” was another selling point for superheroes of the mid 80's and it made people WAY too aware of the processes behind the books.

>Peter is totally wigging out because his house-mate Johnny Storm the Human Torch is crushing on Spider-woman who is secretly Peter's female Clone

HAW! I would SOOOOO read that, if I thought it was being handled with at least as much wit and depth as a “Three’s Company” episode.

Don C.

[david_b]

I've said it before in this thread, I don't like changing the race and genders of characters.

I didn't like it when Sci-Fi made Starbuck female. I didn't like it when they changed Boomer into and Asian woman. I didn't like it when they changed Tigh into a white guy.

My opinion is, if you are not going to be true to the source material. Make your own damn story. On a related note, I didn't really care for Sci-Fi's cringe worthy re-imagining of Flash Gordon. Let's be honest here, it didn't even need to be called Flash Gordon.

Y'know, these are the best points I've heard yet. Especially about Galactica.. If you're going to take the original premise, then change all the characters (keeping the names only... well, somewhat true in Galactica's case..), what's.. the.. fricken'.. point..??

As for BG being an improvement..? Meh, that depends on what you're looking for. It didn't do anything for me.

But back to the point.., it's like armoring/padding up seemingly everyone's uniform in the mid-90s, and all the other changes. I've come to the conclusion that while entertaining.., it's no longer for my tastes, personally.

The younger audience will enjoy it, but for not having the more 'historical' sense of appreciation (the original 60s comics, Galactica, Doctor Who, what have you..), will changes to the canon have any bearing on their enjoyment..? Doubt it. It's entertainment.

david_b

[Werewolf]

A little reminder.

Comic accurate Lynda Carter Wonder Woman: Good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNxctF0-BW8&NR=1

Re-imagined blonde Cathy Lee Crosby Wonder Woman: Bad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udlOu1hTQ88

[Werewolf]

Yet...the new Battlestar Galactica tuned out to be much superior to the original...

Yeah, it's right up there with the Cathy Lee Crosby Wonder Woman.