Have you actually read "Seduction of the innocent"?

[TrueDave]

So, if you were a parent, you'd depend on others to tell your children what was appropriate for them to view, read, etc? That's the damn parents' job. When you start letting others tell you what is ok and not ok you are going down the slippery slope of censorship. PMRC anyone?

Well if your kid asks to watch a DVD and it's made by Nickolodeon you usually Trust them to be okay. Yes.

I don't have cable or know if there is a cartoon station you trust.

I dont want over PC. I think it's crazy out there as is.

Just seperate the peas and teh carrots.

[thunderbolt]

Peas and Carrots are good together.

[ctc]

>Rather than make ALL comics suitable for kids you wish they had reconized some comics were intended for different audiences.

Yeah, that was the big problem. At the time they WERE for different audiences, but post-Code they all had to be kid safe. What always bothered me about that was how newspaper strips didn’t suffer the same fate, even though they were MORE accessible, and often just as questionable. But riling up the masses has never been based on reason.

>Comics as legitimate adult entertainment took a long time.

I think we’re still working on that, actually. Very few grownup comics come out these days, and the SUPPOSED ones that do are mostly 14 year old fan service, or 15 year old pseudo-intellectual pap.

It’s a question of theme, really. Writing about stuff that weighs on a grownup mind, rather than the things that trouble adolescents. One of the points not discussed about the crime comics is that they were the equivalent of all them “true crime” doccunovels that fill the bookshops. And I suspect they appealed to the same audience: an older crowd looking for something with the kick of a novel, but the sheen of real news, based around things a grownup thinks matter.

Adding blood and a sex scene to “Weird Mutant Superthrills” doesn’t make it a grownup book.

Don C.

[samurainoir]

>Comics as legitimate adult entertainment took a long time.

I think we’re still working on that, actually. Very few grownup comics come out these days, and the SUPPOSED ones that do are mostly 14 year old fan service, or 15 year old pseudo-intellectual pap.

Which grownup comics are in your longbox/bookshelf/recommended reading list Don?

[samurainoir]

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[ctc]

>Which grownup comics are in your longbox/bookshelf/recommended reading list Don?

At the moment, none really. If you want to go back in time a bit I'd recommend:
-DeathNote
-Albedo
-Lone Wolf and Cub
-http://www.onemanga.com/Vinland_Saga/

....and a couple that are salient, but puerile:
-Trashman
-Mars (which I think WOULD have developed amazingly had it continued.)
-American Flagg. (The first 20 or so, anyhoo. After Chakyn lost interest it went downhill fast.)

....and if you HAVE to add some superheroes, I’d go with:
-Marvels. (Which I consider to be pretty much the ONLY grownup superhero comic.)

And Harvey Pekar deserves some sort of award! The dude almost singlehandedly created the “slice-of-life” comic!

Don C.

[samurainoir]

So what is it about these particular titles on your recommended reading list that makes them more grown up than anything that has come out in the past 15 years, or even the last few years, such as the titles I've provided above?

As far as I can see in the bookstores, comic shops and online sellers such as Amazon (not to mention the explosion of web comics), there is more choice, diversity and accessibility to comics aimed at an adult audience in North America than any other point in the history of the medium! Every year there is literally an avalanche of new material being produced, and much of it is available from any mainstream bookseller.

>Which grownup comics are in your longbox/bookshelf/recommended reading list Don?

At the moment, none really. If you want to go back in time a bit I'd recommend:
-DeathNote
-Albedo
-Lone Wolf and Cub
-http://www.onemanga.com/Vinland_Saga/

....and a couple that are salient, but puerile:
-Trashman
-Mars (which I think WOULD have developed amazingly had it continued.)
-American Flagg. (The first 20 or so, anyhoo. After Chakyn lost interest it went downhill fast.)

....and if you HAVE to add some superheroes, I’d go with:
-Marvels. (Which I consider to be pretty much the ONLY grownup superhero comic.)

And Harvey Pekar deserves some sort of award! The dude almost singlehandedly created the “slice-of-life” comic!

Don C.

[ctc]

>So what is it about these particular titles on your recommended reading list that makes them more grown up than anything that has come out in the past 15 years, or even the last few years, such as the titles I've provided above?

You've got a lot of good ones there; but there's a few I've never read.... so I can't really comment too much. To generalize my take; I think you've got to watch for themes and what I call "circumstance." The latter being the sort of obstacles that come up for the heroes. A grownup book looks at stuff that bothers a grownup mind.... which tends to be the minutia of living. The sort of obstacles that come up for the hero tend to be more subtle; the sort of stuff that hangs in the mind of an older person. That's why I don't count stuff like "Watchmen" or "The Dark Knight Returns" as grownup books; they've got more gravity and more consequence than the average super, but they're pretty heavy handed about things, and deal with issues in charicature.

Which is why I only KINDA endorse stuff like Mars or American Flagg. Both had a lot of good stuff you could wrap your head around, but Mars was pretty heavy-handed about religion, and Flagg never worked if Chakyn wasn't doing it 'cos everybody else seemed to slip more into the titilation than the underlying reasons behind it.

>there is more choice, diversity and accessibility to comics aimed at an adult audience in North America than any other point in the history of the medium!

I don't disagree; not at all.... but I don't think they've quite made it over the hill. Every so often more mature stuff catches on for a while; but I think a lot of that is novelty. They never quite make it to general, lasting acceptance. (If they did, Pekar would be a hero.) Eventually it slides back into a superhero thing; probably 'cos of how much money is tied up in marketing. So for example: it's the 70's again, and the last time the 70's happened there was a superhero boom. But it was a MARKETING boom, and accordingly the books themselves got more kiddified so's to facilitate toy sales. I thinkwe're seeing that now; considering the amount of kid-safe supers coming out, and the underlying tide of "no; comics IS fer kids!!!" you see from the older fans. Sadly, I suspect that'll spill over to comics in general. Like it has so often before.

For a while.... then THAT group of juinior fans will get older and crave more grownup material....

Don C.