Have you actually read "Seduction of the innocent"?

[ctc]

>how little things have changed in the way the media reacts to this kind of populist crap-science.
>some parents think "MY kid would NEVER do anything wrong/stupid/dangerous"

Maybe only semi-related; but ti illustrate those points here's my fave example of that sort of thinking, from an issue that shaped a great deal of my distrust for authority in all it's forms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbcWK...ext=1&index=28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lN0n...ext=1&index=26

Don C.

[Brazoo]

Haha! Wow, I did NOT expect THAT!

[Brazoo]

Actually this 60 minutes story is very sad. Some amazing denial going on here for sure. They can't figure out that being "obsessed" with fantasy roll playing might be a sign of being unhappy in real life?

Ugh - every second of this video is making me crazy actually. And the follow up with that wackjob Dr. is unreal!

[samurainoir]

there are always sheep-like parents out there who refuse to take responsibility for their own kids, and always look for outside things to blame.

I think this really nails it on the head with regards to the 60 Minutes story. What really jumped out at me was the fact that there is no question about HOW THE KID GOT A-HOLD OF HIS DAD'S HANDGUN?

So they decide to blame D&D instead of acknowledging that their kid shouldn't have had access to the gun that he killed himself with.

[ctc]

>They can't figure out that being "obsessed" with fantasy roll playing might be a sign of being unhappy in real life?

There’s a lot of spurious logic going on there. Note how they ask Gygax if he’d see a link if one factor could be attached to all the suicides.... implying that the link was D&D, but really; they were all teenagers, all in high school, apparently all wore glasses.... But at the time D&D was the new thing, and people HATE new so that MUST be the problem. Back in the day Geraldo did a two part expose on the whole thing that was an absolute MARVEL of yellow journalism. I’ve been looking for it, but no luck. The 60 Minutes bit is similar, but not as over the top. (Geraldo filmed an “actual” game in progress.)

Sometimes the overall effect is sad, like the woman who started BADD because she saw the game as the reason why her perfect son would kill himself. (Perfect in HER eyes, anyhoo.) She probably couldn’t see any of the other problems, and couldn’t accept that maybe if she had, things would be different. Or maybe not; we don’t know how unhappy the kid was, so it’s tough to say if ANYTHING could have helped. But people tend to draw a conclusion and then spin the facts to fit; and if you’re driven enough a crusade is born.

I’d heard of Wertham’s crusade against comics prior to this, but it wasn’t until I was on the receiving end of the witch-hunt that I really understood.

I can’t stress enough how much of an effect the D&D flap had on me. It showed me how really stupid and fearful people can be, how quickly they’ll jump on a cause, and how closed minded most people are. I think that’s why I’m so irritated by geezerisms now that I’m old and surrounded by those who espouse them. Every time I hear how “Bratz are evil, comics are way tool violent, video games will rot your brain, wearing your pants around your hips will turn you into a thug, and don’t get me started on the music!” it brings to mind all the hand-wringing concerned citizens I had to deal with back in the day.

Don C.

[palitoy]

The trouble is the unbalanced mind tends to fixate to things, numbers, the bible, comic books. I'm of the belief that it doesn't really matter what the subject matter is, they'll still do the deed.

Case in point, at my wife's job a few years back, she began to get threatening letters from a customer. We discovered had murdered a woman in the 1970s and was recently released from an institution.

Prior to the threats, he knew my wife because he bought road maps and atlases from her, he was obsessed with them. Talked about them and had a large collection, it was his life. If he struck again, would this launch a crusade against paper maps?

The trouble is sometimes you just don't see the signs, I had a friend a few years back who seemed perfectly fine, one day he hung himself at work. No real warning, seemed the same. I guess in those circumstances, you look for things to blame.

[ctc]

>The trouble is the unbalanced mind tends to fixate to things

BALANCED ones too! Look at some of the things people around HERE lose their minds over.... stuff like Batman comics, minor details on figures.... stuff that doesn't matter. Add some genuine consequence and I can see how folks lose focus. I don't CONDONE it, but I kinda understand. Like I said, the D&D thing seemed pretty universal around here: otherwise reasonable adults who wouldn't even crack a book to see for themselves if there was really a problem.

Don C.

[Brazoo]

Wow - I was pretty lucky I guess. I honestly can't remember a single time in my life that my parents took anything from me that way.

> There’s a lot of spurious logic going on there.

For sure! The parents claim that they "never heard of the game" until after he took his own life - so how much attention were they paying to this kid? I'm not saying the blame is on them 100%, but by their own admission they were not aware of a an obsession in their kid's life. Something is wrong there.

The grieving mother is the most disturbing part of this. Partially because I feel bad for her and partially because I can't stand her. She makes it seem like she didn't even know about D&D before her kid killed himself, but then says the kid threatened his sister's life if she told their parents he played D&D. First of all, what older sibling HASN'T threatened the life of their younger sibling at some point? "If you tell mom I'll kill you!" Big deal! What older sibling HASN'T said that? Second, why would he be so scarred of his parents finding out about the fact that he played D&D unless they already disapproved of it? The parent's story just doesn't add up.

The thing with the wack-job doctor and the follow up is just mind blowing. The level headed sounding police expert with experience investigating teen-age suicide cases gets less than a quarter of the screen time that the ranting nut job Doctor promoting fear gets. And this kind of thing is on TV all the time.

It's hard for me to say what I think of Geraldo without using profanity, but lately I've been reading a fair amount about the Satanism hysteria of the 80s and 90s and he certainly added fuel to the fire with some pretty dire consequences. Those satanic cult cases are another great example of how this kind of overreactive fear can lead to tragedy.

Don - just out of curiosity, were some of the concerns about D&D related to fears of satanism at all?

[samurainoir]

Anyone remember Tom Hanks in that made for TV movie Mazes and Monsters?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6AOd6r6Qi8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGY1_LMiV-g



read the book back in the day as well.

[fallensaviour]

I remember that movie...LOL

The thing about all those bad things back then was kids were using guns and really I don't recall D&D even having guns in it...

So in reality maybe it was all those buddy cop shows or the old westerns they should have looked at.

All terrible and tragic for sure but the blame was wrongly focused and as for the "Dr.s" I wonder if they even have practices anymore...???

Simply asinine if you ask me.
Now if you'll excuse me I need to polish my +2 Broad sword of insanity!?!?!?!!?!?

[TrueDave]

EC comics is the best company ever( me at 38). I'm missing maybe 15 issues from teh ENTIRE 1990s line and I have read them several times.



Have you read them both?

"Wertham was a crackpot!" Are you repeating someone else or have you read him ?

Have you read EVERy issue of EC . Have you seen the content?

Parents back then thought when a kid was going to get comics he was buying Casper the Ghost and Superman.

Gaines Jr just sprung the NEW DiRECTION on the stands to appeal to the vets who had just returned and sen some hard stuff and wanted thier comics harder.

ANd why again is a Child Psychologist who works in teh inner city a crackpot because he made parents aware of what was out there?

If you didnt have him you wouldnt have the systems you use NOW to CENSOR what is right and wrong for your kids.

[thunderbolt]

^^^ Parents are supposed to be "the system" that monitors what kids read and see.

[TrueDave]

That seems random.

LOVED that movie. was excited to find teh VHS at a flea Market

AWSOME!


Is teh book as good?

Is your point Comics can make people go Don Quioxte and think they are a Real Life Superhero?

Done.

Shadowhare, Citizen Prime, Geist, Master LEgend, . . . .

Anyone remember Tom Hanks in that made for TV movie Mazes and Monsters?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6AOd6r6Qi8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGY1_LMiV-g

http://vbaudoin.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/mazesmonstersvhscover.jpg

read the book back in the day as well.
http://img1.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n4/n21913.jpg

[TrueDave]

^^^ Parents are supposed to be "the system" that monitors what kids read and see.

How could you tell every book , website , video game , movie, etc was appropriate if things like the Comics Seal wasnt created?

Hey its great stuff warped minds like Carpenter, King, Speilburg, etc.

BUT it wasnt suitable for kids.

You want your kid reading a comic that shows a guy throwing his girlfriend off a rollercoaster because he finds out she pregnant? On teh cover?

[samurainoir]

That seems random.

Not random within the context that the conversation had migrated to the 80's scare-mongering around D&D for the last page and a half of the thread.

Is your point Comics can make people go Don Quioxte and think they are a Real Life Superhero?

That would be this book, published in the eighties as well.

Amazon.com: The Kryptonite Kid (9780030577987): Joseph Torchia: Books