Have you actually read "Seduction of the innocent"?

[TrueDave]

I did 5 years a go in a tiny town I was living in in PA.

In Cincy its in the archives dept. but I checked it out in PA and read it and I agree with it.

Some of the stuff about Superheroes was silly. Maybe intelligentlly debateable for fun.

But what Dr W. said about Crime EC comics was true. I imagined the word Comic replaced with TV or Videogames if it was written more recentlly.

And yes I've read every thing but MAD and Moon Girl and I think he was right about the SuspenStories. The horror titles yeah, the Crime titles Absolutely and the Shock titles YOU Gotta be Kidding Me!

I support the seal. I miss it. I did get to books I never should have read like Marshal Law anyway. I even got DeadWorld as a Middle schooler.

I just miss comics being in Drug Stores.

[samurainoir]

Seduction of the Innocent: Has anyone else actually read it? - Mego Talk

[madmarva]

Comic books not being sold in drug stores has little to do with the comics code seal and more to do with retailers not wanting to alot space to items (ie. comic books) that don't carry their weight in sales.

magazines and periodicals of all kinds are receiving less and less space in grocery, drug and convenience stores. Certainly the Direct Market did not help the situation, but it was coming.

I'm sure DC and Marvel and other publishers would have no problem putting the seal back on their comics and toning down the content a bit if stores like Wal-Mart and Walgreens and others would carry their comics. But the stores aren't interested because the general public is not interested enough.

Drug stores have no problem handling periodicals and novels with content more racy, outlandish, graphic and profane than that appears in most of the comics printed by marvel, DC, Image, Darkhouse and others. They just don't feel that comics will sell as well and they are probably right.

Before comics would appear in stores like they once did, the comic companies would have to begin selling them on a returnable basis like they once did through newstand distributors. But the distributors don't want to carry the comics anymore because they are too labor intensive with so many title and weekly distribution.

That boat has floated and it floated more than 20 years ago.

[thunderbolt]

Love the EC stuff and don't buy for one minute that it rotted kids minds or whatever. Its up to parents to police what the kids do, not Uncle Sam.

[The Toyroom]

Seduction of the Innocent: Has anyone else actually read it? - Mego Talk

Interesting....that thread was started by the same person that started this one. How many times are we going to go to the same well? Nothing else to discuss?

[Brazoo]

But what Dr W. said about Crime EC comics was true. I imagined the word Comic replaced with TV or Videogames if it was written more recentlly.

It's hard for me not to compare a lot of the newer hoopla about video games to the old comics controversy as well - but I have the exact opposite opinion as you do. I've never heard anyone present evidence suggesting Wertham's theories were correct based on a decrease in violent behavior in children after the comics code was enacted - have you? I would expect that if there were even a shred of statistical evidence supporting Wertham's theories in hindsight it would be used to support arguments by the anti-video game folks too, wouldn't you?

The interesting thing to me, looking back on it now, is how little things have changed in the way the media reacts to this kind of populist crap-science. With nothing but conjecture, anecdotal theories and a PHD you can still get a pretty big steam roller moving through our culture if you create enough fear.

[thunderbolt]

Interesting....that thread was started by the same person that started this one. How many times are we going to go to the same well? Nothing else to discuss?

True Dave seems to have a prudish agenda of some sort.

[TrueDave]

Interesting....that thread was started by the same person that started this one. How many times are we going to go to the same well? Nothing else to discuss?

No Mr. Man,

I didnt get the answer I was waiting on then and I havent so far.

Some people say they read it thought it was a dry read etc but having read the book and the stuff itself and imagining one of my old students reading it I gotta say no way.

Back then it was like a Movie theatre with no Rating System kids could and did walk into R rated films at 5 when thier parents thought they were enjoying g.

Plus it is one of the most signifigant occurences in American Comic history .

[samurainoir]

Of relevant interest to this discussion around censorship, ratings and labeling is Steve Bissette recounting of the 1980's ratings controversy over at DC and the resultant impact and fallout.

SRBissette.com - SpiderBaby Archives: The DC/Marvel Ratings Debacles 1986-87, Part 1

It's quite an investment in time to plough through all 12 Parts, but I would be interested in what folks think about the hard stand many top creators took against DC in the 80's.

[TrueDave]

You know I saw a photocopied Swamp Thing that was censored. Where he was suppossed to come back in time to meet Christ. I wanted to buy it but couldnt afford it.

DC had a lot of more mature stuff in the 1980s.

My agaenda is Peas and carrots. Seperate.

Comics for kids , comics for adults.

I didnt even like the normally Hot Topic only horror figures I saw in teh action figure isles at Toys r us last time.

Of relevant interest to this discussion around censorship, ratings and labeling is Steve Bissette recounting of the 1980's ratings controversy over at DC and the resultant impact and fallout.

SRBissette.com - SpiderBaby Archives: The DC/Marvel Ratings Debacles 1986-87, Part 1

It's quite an investment in time to plough through all 12 Parts, but I would be interested in what folks think about the hard stand many top creators for DC took in the 80's.

[samurainoir]

In regards to today? I'm thinking that the "bookstore" approach that many publishers and forward-thinking retailers have taken has sufficiently addressed the issue without necessarily going to a ratings system.

I think it's rather obvious that this trade dress isn't meant for kids...


versus this one...



Think of how they handled the growing adult audience for Harry Potter a few years ago.

Adult Cover that they stuck in the adult Fantasy section of the bookstore...


versus the one they stuck in the kids section...


The problem takes care of itself most of the time in the way the packaging and marketing is handled.


Most parents know enough not to take their five year old into a movie theatre if this is the poster in front of it right?


At the video store you'll rent this one for your five year old...

[Brazoo]

My agaenda is Peas and carrots. Seperate.

Comics for kids , comics for adults.

Yeah - I have to disagree with you and side with samurainoir here. There isn't any recent movement that I can think of to create a ratings system for regular books, for example. That system seems to work fine.

It really seems to me that in most cases people who want censorship or ratings systems are reacting more to the mediums they don't like, not the content. And either way it's not very conducive to the idea of free speech.

[cjefferys]

Wow, deja vu!

Wertham was a crackpot and unfortunately there are always sheep-like parents out there who refuse to take responsibility for their own kids, and always look for outside things to blame. It happened in the 50's and it's happening today.

It's scary how much influence one "doctor" with some half baked theory can end up having. Senate hearings? Organized comic book burnings? Really??? How did it come to that??

And I will never forgive that idiot for effectively killing the finest comic book company that ever existed.


I

[fallensaviour]

Wow, deja vu!
Wertham was a crackpot and unfortunately there are always sheep-like parents out there who refuse to take responsibility for their own kids, and always look for outside things to blame. It happened in the 50's and it's happening today.
It's scary how much influence one "doctor" with some half baked theory can end up having. Senate hearings? Organized comic book burnings? Really??? How did it come to that??
And I will never forgive that idiot for effectively killing the finest comic book company that ever existed.

Talk about hitting the nail on the head!!!
As a parent I know what my children read and watch!
Why you might ask,because I have a vast library(yes that's right I have real paper books on shelves)
So I give them books to read when we go to the library I let them pick out books and I give them the yes or no on the spot before they check out.
At home I watch shows with them.
Internet is also monitored.
Video games are checked out.
It's called being an active parent.I don't need the government,doctors,psychiatrists or parenting groups on Oprah giving me there opinions on these things.
I grew up on Elvis,ccr,ac/dc,kiss an motley crue I played D&D and video games.
Guess what I never killed anybody growing up hell I even became a paramedic and saved lives.
Use your brains people of the earth!!!

Now having said that.People are free to do say and write whatever they want to.It's their right to do so and I can make my judgements from there.
kudos to him for getting published that the dreams of a lot of people but shame on him for being a nut job and taking advantage of lesser minded individuals...!!!

[Brazoo]

It's a shifting of responsibility 100%, but I also think think part of the mentality is that some parents think "MY kid would NEVER do anything wrong/stupid/dangerous" and the truth is ALL KIDS at some point do something wrong/stupid/dangerous - so when it happens they look for external things they think made it happen. It's just way easier to find fault with outside forces instead of blaming your kid or yourself.

It's like when you see someone walking on the sidewalk and they trip you think "they tripped", but when you or I are walking and we trip we think "something made me trip". We tend to look for external influences for our own actions (or in this case our children's actions), but hold other people responsible for their own actions. We just tend to think that way naturally.

Anyway, the fact is that Wertham's followers won - the comics code was put into effect - statistically did children commit less crime?