Why does Batman have a better Rogues Gallery than Superman?

[BlackKnight]

i'll use your post post to respond rergarding that I believe you don't have
to be a diehard comic reader to discuss this topic...or, in fact, many topics
discussed on this board.

I'll use your 2 Posts ..., to Show that perhaps you Do ..., even More so when you Carry on, and On threw 6 Pages of Flat Arse Out Nonsense.

...mainly its suffered because of bad luck in "directions" with more popular culture media stuff than Batman ever had.

That's a real shame because I think BIZARRO, BRAINIAC, METALLO, PARASITE
etc. have gotten a raw deal. One thing that's so great about those villains
is they much more intertwined with SUPERMAN and SUPERMAN's powers
than Bats' villains are with his...or the Flash's with his..

You should atleast go and read Some comics before making Such poor Opinionated Posts ... And leave the True Discussions of "Debate" for people that do ..., or as you consistantly refur to those that do with the Name calling of "Comicbook Geeks" . ...

[huedell]

You should atleast go and read Some comics before making Such poor Opinionated Posts ... And leave the True Discussions of "Debate" for people that do ..., or as you consistantly refur to those that do with the Name calling of "Comicbook Geeks" . ...

Again.....getting unnecessarily "hurt" because huedell don't read as many
comics as you do.

To review what I've already said in this thread:

I've seen movies, TV shows and other media enough to base my opinion
on something solid regarding comic heroes----
AND the comics that I HAVEN'T read have been somewhat
supplimented by all the dieards on this board including you.

Its not like I claim to know things I don't know...its not like
I claim you don't know more than me.
My posts aren't "poor"----your comic geek-colored glasses you see
them thru are....time to change the view or we'll be arguing more about
"credentials" instead of the facts at hand.

[huedell]

Incidentally... since many here are being so dang literal about the thread title
(go figure)...I thought since I PERSONALLY think Superman's baddies are overall better than Bats', then I'd offer up that something of more of
a compromise in the thread title's "thrust"....for me it would be to say
that Batman has an "EASIER rogues gallery to render in media" than Batman
does....

again, I'd say that's more due to the gimmicky nature of
many of Bats baddies that are less related to Batman's character than
Superman's are...tie that with the phenomenon of the villains
coming to life in the wildly sucessful 66 show.....well...it puts Batman's
baddies in quite the flattering light.

I have to admit that the more I think about the RIDDLER, the more
I see the connection with BATMAN's "detective" aspect altho' I think
I don't respect the character because I never could get in synch
with a villain that thrived off of giving brain teasers no matter how much
it tied into BATMAN's character.

Not to be harsh with the resident Pengiuin fans...and, yes, I don't know the comics that well, eh, but Penguin seems to be still coasting off of Meredith's
wake...heck the Burton Penguin made alot more sense being a discarded
socialite favorite son....a freak version of Bruce wayne....almost Bizarro-like
in concept on that bent.

[samurainoir]

I have to admit that the more I think about the RIDDLER, the more
I see the connection with BATMAN's "detective" aspect altho' I think
I don't respect the character because I never could get in synch
with a villain that thrived off of giving brain teasers no matter how much
it tied into BATMAN's character.

Riddler's step into the spotlight is definitely all down to Gorshin's gonzo '66 antics. Prior to that he was a minor Batman villain at best, and had only appeared a handful of times. It's been speculated that the Riddler was chosen for the premiere episode because Riddler's appearance in Batman #171 happened to be the issue on the newsstands when the show went into development.

[huedell]

Riddler's step into the spotlight is definitely all down to Gorshin's gonzo '66 antics. Prior to that he was a minor Batman villain at best, and had only appeared a handful of times. It's been speculated that the Riddler was chosen for the premiere episode because Riddler's appearance in Batman #171 happened to be the issue on the newsstands when the show went into development.

I think I read that about RIDDLER/BATMAN 66 as well.

THE RIDDLER's "gimmick" is also perfect for a silly show like BATMAN '66
(and the SUPER FRIENDS for that matter) i just can't gel with him otherwise
...as in judging his value overall...if he didn't tickle me in BTAS then I say its
a strikeout IMO....same goes for PENGUIN in STAS....a good litmus test.

I know if Nolan took a shot at RIDDLER there'd be a way of making him SO
deliciously dangerous that it'd be a "step in the right direction".

[samurainoir]

So why does Wonder Woman not have much of a Rogues Gallery at all given that she is part of DC's Big Three?

Cheetah, Ares and Circe have certainly made the list, but I think they go back to Circe way too often these days. I really don't think the likes of Doctor Psycho, Silver Swan and Egg Foo are really cutting it too much. Paula Von Gunther isn't really seen too often these days is she?

Maybe with Maxwell Lord back, they can take the opportunity to use him as a Wonder Woman Big Bad. He's certainly got an axe to grind with her.

Given her emphasis on old world Gods, I always wondered why they didn't try to pit her against the New Gods more... Darkseid to me seems like he's better suited as a Wonder Woman villain than a Superman bad guy in that regard.

[samurainoir]

heck the Burton Penguin made alot more sense being a discarded
socialite favorite son....a freak version of Bruce wayne....almost Bizarro-like
in concept on that bent.

As much as I have fondness for Meridith's portrayal, I'm admittedly in the minority that takes great delight in the Tim Burton/Danny Devito version. I love the fact that he almost feels like an Edward Gorey storybook come to life. Again, this is probably down to the way Devito relished in inhabiting such a vile loathsome little creature... loved the bit with him eating the fish.

I think the reason why the Batman TAS version never really came together was because Dini/Timm and co didn't feel much affinity for that "Mutant Outcast" version from the Burton movie, but were saddled with it and had to compromise their original vision, which they reverted to in subsequent series.

Interesting to note that once more the comics have ransacked yet another of the Dini/Timm animated series concepts... Penguin as a criminal middleman, which currently works quite well and gives the Penguin a unique role in the current storylines as an ongoing supporting character in the Gotham City tapestry (just like Riddler is now a rival detective).

I always liked the way the origin story drawn Sam Keith tried to reconcile the concepts, but I think much of that is down to the unique style of Keith's art and that kind of menacing whimsy "Big Foot" look.

[huedell]

Good stuff on Penguin samurai----BTW my most poignant memory of
PENGUIN in his "Timm" form was being a start off point for Supes
when he's trying to find Btams during a STAS episode.

That comes off as something like what you're referring to in the comics....
a kind "Mob"by type guy who ultimately is more of a "bit player" as
far as Gotham crime goes.

Unless he's developed more ala DevIto's---that's where Penguin serves best
as far as I can see.

[samurainoir]

I know if Nolan took a shot at RIDDLER there'd be a way of making him SO
deliciously dangerous that it'd be a "step in the right direction".

The Riddler's been messed around with a bit too much in the past decade or so. I always thought making him insane (was it after Dark Night, Dark City?) and having writers begin sending him to Arkham instead of Blackgate was a mistake. Then there was in my opinion the HUGE misfire in tying him into the Joker's Killing Joke origin in the Hush follow-up.

Don't even get me started on neck tattoo Goth Riddler!


Although I thought Azzerello's Riddler from the recent Joker Graphic Novel was good for laugh... keeping in mind that it's the same writer who thought up "Pimp Croc".


Even with all it's faults, Hush did do a good job in re-establishing Riddler as a "thinking" villain, and Dini's handling of the character in the past couple of years as a Rival Detective has made him much more interesting, again placing him into the mix as a supporting character with his own anti-Batman agenda, rather than a recurring bad guy who gets thumped every few months. This current version also might owe a bit to Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale's Catwoman: When in Rome series.

I am intrigued by the rumours that were floating around a while back about Johnny Depp being Nolan's Riddler. It's always kind of neat whenever Depp sheds his "whimsy" for some harder edged roles.


Here's another fun fan poster (although I don't think Tennant is the best fit).

[samurainoir]

Other Riddler Comics I'm fond of...

Gaiman's Secret Origins story which is less an origin story and more of a nostalgic pining for the "Good ol Days" of '66 Batman and Dick Sprang's Gotham City.


This issue really plays off the Sad Sack "has-been" Riddler.


And this one's just fun.

[thunderbolt]

I'll use your 2 Posts ..., to Show that perhaps you Do ..., even More so when you Carry on, and On threw 6 Pages of Flat Arse Out Nonsense.




You should atleast go and read Some comics before making Such poor Opinionated Posts ... And leave the True Discussions of "Debate" for people that do ..., or as you consistantly refur to those that do with the Name calling of "Comicbook Geeks" . ...

BK, I get the feeling that Hue would argue with any statement just for kicks. I bet he would dissagree with "The sky is blue".

[Earth 2 Chris]

I think Brian hit the nail on the head with the 66 series cementing the Bat-villains in pop culture. Had George Reeves regularly fought Luthor, Toyman, Prankster, Puzzler, etc, they would be appreciated a lot more. Most folks know Luthor, but they don't really know much about him other than he's bald and he's Superman's enemy. And even Hackman threw off the bald thing, only briefly being bald in his movie appearances.

The psychological edge of Batman's villains makes them more compelling for sure. Even if they aren't insane, they all have these twisted little quirks that make them interesting. Even Penguin.

STAS did a good job of beefing up Superman's rogues, through the use of Darkseid, making Toyman creepy, and adding characters like Livewire.

Maybe the years Wesinger invested in over-developing Superman's Kryptonian heritage would have been better spent on coming up with classic menaces for the series. Of course we did get Bizarro and Parasite, but other than them and random Phantom Zoners, what other ongoing threats were developed in that long period? Multiple Kryptonite?

Villans that have stuck around have cropped up in every decade of Batman's existence. After the Riddler capped off the truly classic Bat-rogues in 1948, Mr. Zero cropped up in the late 50s, Clayface II in the early 60s, then Poison Ivy in 66. The 70s brought Man-Bat and Ra's Al Ghul. The 80s gave us Croc and the Ventriliquist. The 90s gave us Bane. The 2000s gave us Hush.

When was the last time a totally new Superman villain really stuck? Cyborg Superman? He's been co-opted by Green Lantern!

Chris

[The Toyroom]

When was the last time a totally new Superman villain really stuck? Cyborg Superman? He's been co-opted by Green Lantern!

How quickly we forget Bloodsport or Rampage!

Seriously though, I guess Doomsday has made the grade as an A-list villain. But once you've already killed Superman (and yourself in the process), that's a tough act to follow.

[TrueDave]

Bloodsport was great . I loved the evolution of the characters in the costume. Limited what you can do with him and NOT kill him. What happened with Toyman was so great a story and such a turn off to me ( Same as Moore's Joker)


I think the problem of a Superman rouges gallery goes back to the principle of the Superhero Formula.

What a superhero fights ties into his orgin.

Batman is supposed to be a regular human. I like Batman World's Greatest detective Played up. Like Holmes. And maybe even make it a peroid piece. Pre WW2. Tense times .

STill Batman is the exact opposite of what all his villians are. Maybe thats why they hate hi. You know the point Bats should have POUNDED into the Moores Jokers face was Batman had a bad day too. And he choose good dispite the depression and want of revenge.


You know the only Batman out of comics I have ever believed is the 66 Batman series batman and some of the Superfriends.

No man can be an expert on everything. ( unless hes an Alien) and live that long while being mortal doing what Batman does.

Supermans home was destroyed by a natural disaster.

When ever I watch a tragedy movie I always have an urge to see Superman sweep in.

Luthor can be there to be a jerk . I think what I think is I can accept Superman is a Superpowered being because hes alien and who knows whats out there. But I have trouble beliving in more than a Planet Krypton in a single good story.

So dont push the acceptance of disbelief .

I want to see a is Superman movie where Superman is Friendly . Everyone trusts him and he just saves people. The thing that makes him grimace in pain most is him deflecting a Kryptomnite Meteor. As memorable personality as Stark/Downey JR

But a kid friendly one.

[huedell]

BK, I get the feeling that Hue would argue with any statement just for kicks. I bet he would dissagree with "The sky is blue".

I think you're disrerspectful for thinking that....either that or you just need
some kind of justification for me disagreeing with you. Sad.