Disney Could Save the Comic Book Industry

[Riffster]

I hope they gravitate away from manga art like Ms Marvel, I liked it alot better when Mariah Benes was doing the art

[ctc]

>I do read "Japanese" Manga stories... ONLY.... to read "BloodFist" and "Drunken Fists" and those Kung Fu comics...

Ummmm.... those are Chinese.... but yeah; they are cool!

>I think his name was Ghost Shadow siding with "Hero" who withhold a red sword...

That's going back a bit! (Although I think they're still coming out.) I used to like the guy witht he scorpion on his shirt.... but I don't know his name. (Tragicly, I can't read Chinese.)

>The others does not just appeal to me at all

Makes sense, since "Japanese comic book" covers a LOT of ground. (It's personal hate, that people think it's all one homogenous book.)

>I hope they gravitate away from manga art like Ms Marvel

BWAHAHAHAAA!!!!! I hope they do more! MORE! A neverending run of....

Well; actually I DON'T. That "Spiderman J" is all kinds of wrong, and now haunts my dreams. In a BAD way. And I still maintain that the worst sin any entertainment medium can engage in is intellectual inbreeding. Jumping on ANY bandwagon is a bad idea. I thought the Big Two-And-A-Half proved that in the 90's.... the LAST time they tried capitalizing on the whole Japanese comic thing.

Spiderman J. *shudder*

Don C.

[samurainoir]

>
Well; actually I DON'T. That "Spiderman J" is all kinds of wrong, and now haunts my dreams. In a BAD way. And I still maintain that the worst sin any entertainment medium can engage in is intellectual inbreeding. Jumping on ANY bandwagon is a bad idea. I thought the Big Two-And-A-Half proved that in the 90's.... the LAST time they tried capitalizing on the whole Japanese comic thing.

Spiderman J. *shudder*

Don C.

You think that is bad?


Spiderman J is actually bandwagon jumping from the other direction rather than originating from any North American initiative on Marvel's part (ala their Mangaverse experiment). Much like Crying Freeman's Ryoichi Ikegami producing original Japanese manga for a Japanese audience a few decades back.


It's the Japanese Manga market capitalizing on the popularity of Spiderman by licensing their version... in turn it's low cost for Marvel to turn around and put out an English language volume of their own.

The Japanese produced this version by manga creator Yamanaka Akira and actually came out in Japan about five years ago.

And lest we forget the Indian Spiderman originally produced for consumption in India...



It's like Batman's Club of Heroes around the world. I'm assuming Spiderman Russia will have a big furry hat and Spiderman Holland wears wooden shoes.

[samurainoir]

Although cross fertilization across cultures does lead to interesting results.

Without this...


We might not have this...

[samurainoir]

plus



equals



Which was a failed experiment at the time, but arguably was one of the key components of the current success of the graphic novel market. Taking the Asian and European influences in both form and content and creating an entirely new model of both distribution, production and consumption for the medium in North America.

[Tyme2tyme]

Disney couldn't even do Disney Comics right back when they wrestled them away from Gladstone when they saw Gladstone making some money on them.

I grew up loving Disney comics but as Krypto stated, Disney's comics were only successful when they let others do them (Dell, Whitman, Gold Key and Gladstone). The Gladstone product was obviously a labor of love. They were "FANS" of the comics they worked on and even found talented artists to create new stories. They were doing very well and drew the attention of Disney's money-men. Disney revoked their rights and started publishing the Disney comics themselves (and ran the product into the ground). JOHN

[jasonmego1277]

I grew up loving Disney comics but as Krypto stated, Disney's comics were only successful when they let others do them (Dell, Whitman, Gold Key and Gladstone). The Gladstone product was obviously a labor of love. They were "FANS" of the comics they worked on and even found talented artists to create new stories. They were doing very well and drew the attention of Disney's money-men. Disney revoked their rights and started publishing the Disney comics themselves (and ran the product into the ground). JOHN

I have been thinking about that , and it is one of my fears , but Marvel is different fan base than Disney Comics. I would be all for a new direction , but only if it stays true to the characters , and does not get silly and campy.

[jwyblejr]

Disney couldn't even do Disney Comics right back when they wrestled them away from Gladstone when they saw Gladstone making some money on them.
Plus like ctc said, I don't think comics are a high priority to Disney.
Comics are a dwindling industry mostly due to their own practices (some mentioned earlier) and I think (sadly) it's too late to turn them around to the way they were. The damage is done, the prices are too high and kids just aren't into comics like they were back in the pre-video game era.
Rich

Yeah,they even had Marv Wolfman in charge and still couldn't do anything with the comics.

[samurainoir]

Yeah,they even had Marv Wolfman in charge and still couldn't do anything with the comics.

I think he's more influential as a writer than an editor (and I think history shows this).

Keep in mind that Wolfman was also Editor in Cheif at Marvel comics as well back in the day (when EIC were like Drummer's in Spinal Tap) and I'm not really certain he made much of a mark in his short tenure.

[Captain]

I think Warners replacing DC Comics Pres Levitz with a marketing expert and changing the name to DC Entertainment shows where the emphasis has shifted. I'm betting the Marvel/Disney tie up will be the same. Comics are nothing these days. The real money is in licensing and marketing the snot out of the characters!

[ctc]

>Which was a failed experiment at the time,

Well.... yeah. I think he ended up taking the BAD parts of the two and skrunching them together.

>but arguably was one of the key components of the current success of the graphic novel market.

Hmmmm.... tough call; since the graphic novel format had been in use WAY before that, but mostly for the bookstore crowd. (Compilations, albums and European/British stuff.) But yeah, I think that, and the Marvel ones brought the format to the attention of the the then new comic shop crowd.

>Without this.../>We might not have this...

We still would. I thought Spidey was a late entry into the TV Hero biz. That's why he had the robot; since it was already established as a major part of the formula.

>You think that is bad?

HAW! That's pretty bad; but it's a one-off gag. The horror of "Spiderman J" goes on for a few issues....

>Comics are nothing these days.

I agree, and that's why I don't see the comics changing that much. I don't think Disney's gonna care.

Don C.

[samurainoir]

>but arguably was one of the key components of the current success of the graphic novel market.

Hmmmm.... tough call; since the graphic novel format had been in use WAY before that, but mostly for the bookstore crowd. (Compilations, albums and European/British stuff.) But yeah, I think that, and the Marvel ones brought the format to the attention of the the then new comic shop crowd.

Note CURRENT SUCCESS. The graphic novel in North America had been pioneered as a format by the likes of Steranko, Wally Wood, Will Eisner et al, but let's look at MARKET.

In terms of the bookstore crowd, we have comic strip compilations in the Humour section and European stuff like Smurfs, Asterix and Tintin in the kid's sections. It wasn't until the three pronged attack of Maus, Dark Knight and Watchmen that bookstores birthed an actually "Graphic Novel" section, since none of them were appropriate for Humour nor Children sections. That article in Rolling Stone, coupled with Bat-mania mark 2 really did create the groundswell for the comics/movies/merchandise juggernaut of today's culture.

Two of those are direct descendants of Ronin (and Camelot 3000 regarding format at DC specifically better paper, no ads, utilizing contemporary printing tech of the day), while Maus is the child of the highbrow Raw anthology and undergrounds. Not that DC didn't have previous failed experiments that also contributed. I'm sure they learned a great deal with those Science Fiction adaptations of the earlier eighties that were too cumbersome and large to fit neatly with the rest of the SciFi Section, and cluttered up remainder tables for the rest of the decade. I think Raw ended up in Art sections or Humour sections, Speigelman and his wife speak about this in the documentary Comic Book Confidential.

Marvel really came late to the game and only became players once the rubble had been cleared from the Heroes World debacle and Diamond agreed to back their bookstore and trade initiatives after DC/Warner had almost a decade long jump on them. They did not have the pre-existing Warner Books machine at their disposal to warehouse, distribute, market, and otherwise ride the wave of the mass media journalism that "mature" comics were receiving (BAM POW Comics Grow Up!). Given how many copies of Dark Knight and Watchmen are in print, the rest really is comics history two decades later.

[samurainoir]

We still would. I thought Spidey was a late entry into the TV Hero biz. That's why he had the robot; since it was already established as a major part of the formula.

We might still given the fact that shows like Utraman were around and Giant Robots were a staple of their own shows, but Spiderman was the first to establish the Sentai formula by giving him a Giant Robot.

Someone more versed in Sentai can probably elaborate, but the earliest incarnation of Power Rangers was essentially spun out of the success of Spiderman and in fact I believe the earliest development of what eventually became Power Rangers was their attempt to create a Captain America type show.

I'm sure given the popularity of both, someone would eventually put the Spandex and Giant Robots together even without Spidey, but my understanding is Spiderman established the formula.

[ctc]

>It wasn't until the three pronged attack of Maus, Dark Knight and Watchmen that bookstores birthed an actually "Graphic Novel" section, since none of them were appropriate for Humour nor Children sections.

Hmmmm.... I still think that's too narrow a way of looking at it. Sure there was no specific "graphic novel" section; but there were tons of graphic novels. Bookstores started compiling them on the same shelves well after the comic crowd really coined the term. Way back in the 70's I remember specific sections in bookstores stocked full of graphic novels from the likes of WARP, Titan and especially Heavy Metal, mostly in the sci-fi area. (They did have their own section at "The World's Biggest Bookstore;" where I used to get mine.)

>Marvel really came late to the game

I think ultimately Marvel AND DC came in late. As I recall Watchmen and Dark Knight were compiled in the squarebound format specificly for bookstores, following an already established format. The first one I remember being specificly pushed AS a Graphic Novel was "God Loves, Man Kills."

Don C.

[samurainoir]

Way back in the 70's I remember specific sections in bookstores stocked full of graphic novels from the likes of WARP, Titan and especially Heavy Metal, mostly in the sci-fi area. (They did have their own section at "The World's Biggest Bookstore;" where I used to get mine.)

I didn't realize you were a local Don!

I remember The World's Biggest Bookstore as well quite fondly as a kid, but I would say that (and Baka) are the exceptions given the fact that WBB stocked things you would never really see retail anywhere else back then before Chapters and Indigo (and even now they try and focus on larger specialty selections... scifi and graphic novels being two of them). This is straight from the horses mouth first hand from former managers of the WBB that I know.

You certainly didn't see Elfquest, Judge Dredd, and all those Heavy Metal books (other than movie adaptations like Alien or 1941, but especially not Corben or Druillet et al) in the chains like WH Smith or Coles at your local mall with any kind of frequency or longevity, nor would you see a specific Graphic Novel section in those chains. (and yes, I know WBB was owned by Coles). The point being, bookstores might have experimented with stocking ElfQuest or Mage or A Distant Soil, but they certainly didn't have the sales behind them to be restocked and to be continuously in print for two decades as a Mass Market presence.

>Marvel really came late to the game

I think ultimately Marvel AND DC came in late. As I recall Watchmen and Dark Knight were compiled in the squarebound format specificly for bookstores, following an already established format. The first one I remember being specificly pushed AS a Graphic Novel was "God Loves, Man Kills."

That's exactly my point in that we are talking MARKET, not FORMAT here...

As I keep reiterating, Marvel came late to the BOOKSTORE MARKET.

Watchmen and Dark Knight were compiled by Warner Books for the BOOKSTORE MASS MARKET (which is the original point of the thread). Marvel didn't get there in any significant presence until a decade later at least. Of course there were the Pocket Book and Fireside Trade Paperbacks of the sixties and seventies, but that wasn't really Marvel as Publisher on their own reaching that market and that didn't really have much longevity into the eighties. My point being the lasting impact of Graphic Novels in the Mass Market hit the groundswell in the late eighties starting with those specific three books and has expanded into the current market. Prior to the three, you wouldn't see a Graphic Novel in the New York Times best sellers list (or any other best-seller list for books), or reviewed in mainstream media like Rolling Stone, Entertainment Weekly or even The New Yorker.

Graphic Novels as a format in the DIRECT MARKET is as old as the direct market distribution pioneered by Phil Seuling, Bud Plant et al. But the Comic Book Shop and specialty outlets like Baka or World's Biggest aren't the MASS MARKET (which began our discussion with the original hypothosis that Disney could save Comics).