Disney Could Save the Comic Book Industry

[WheresRICHARD]

Here's my take on why Disney could actually save the comic book industry, thanks to their buy-out of Marvel Comics. It's my opinion that the decline of the comic-book industry came when, in the early 80s, comic books started disappearing from convenience stores and newsstands and started being sold almost exclusively at comics shops. This locked them in to an "inner circle," i.e., those who already know about comic books enough to know to visit a comic shop. I personally would NEVER have started collecting them when I was 11 if they had been sold only at comic shops. My collecting started when I saw them at the local convenience store and was drawn to them...and bought, and went back week after week from then on.

Now, Disney already has so much pull at Walmart and Target and other major retailers that they can muscle their comic books onto the shelves where the non-comics-minded person can encounter them....and be drawn into collecting.

At least, that's how I see it.

[ctc]

>It's my opinion that the decline of the comic-book industry came when, in the early 80s, comic books started disappearing from convenience stores and newsstands and started being sold almost exclusively at comics shops.

Yup, and by the mid 80's they were writing stories meant to appeal strictly to the "comic shop" crowd; whch further alienated new or casual readers.

>they can muscle their comic books onto the shelves where the non-comics-minded person can encounter them

IF they actually care to. I'm wondering how much the comics figure into the equation for Disney.

'Course, the comic book INDUSTRY is doing quite well these days. It's just Marvel and DC that aren't....

Don C.

[kryptosmaster]

Disney couldn't even do Disney Comics right back when they wrestled them away from Gladstone when they saw Gladstone making some money on them.
Plus like ctc said, I don't think comics are a high priority to Disney.
Comics are a dwindling industry mostly due to their own practices (some mentioned earlier) and I think (sadly) it's too late to turn them around to the way they were. The damage is done, the prices are too high and kids just aren't into comics like they were back in the pre-video game era.
Rich

[Captain]

Wal Mart Canada sold comic books for years. They pulled them a while back because they werent selling. Several book stores (chains and independents) have been trying to push rack comics too...Same results. They just dont sell. Hardcovers and Graphic Novels sell, but the plain old funny book just doesnt move anymore.
I work for a couple of different independent publishers -Canadian and American- and have worked with them to try and get comics back into several different types of retail venues. NOBODY (but comic shops) really wants to carry them anymore. It's a shame, but it is what it is.

I dont think the pairing of kids and comics is a dead thing, but I do know its going to take a LOT more than just putting comics where kids are. Todays kids grew up in a world that spoon fed marketed them on what they should like. Some kids rise above all that, but I think in the general sense, they all follow the trends. We did, such as they were, during our childhood. You would need to do a ton of marketing to get kids to notice comics again, and second, would need to make comics a lot more entertaining and accessible to the general public. They have become a product that caters to a bit of an elitist crowd, and dont really have the kind of stories/writing that would allow for the casual reader, or new reader.

[ctc]

>the prices are too high and kids just aren't into comics like they were back in the pre-video game era.
>You would need to do a ton of marketing to get kids to notice comics again,

You guys are killing me.... Shonen Jump. It's a comic book. It sells. Kids read them. Comics are fine. Video games didn't kill them.

Everything said here applies bigtime to Marvel, DC and sometimes Image; but not comics in general. Comics are MORE than Marvel, DC and sometimes Image.

>Several book stores (chains and independents) have been trying to push rack comics too...Same results.

If you're referring to the format, then yeah; maybe. Except the Archie ones seem to move. Marvel, DC and sometimes Image priced themselves WAY out of the "casual buyer" price zone. I can buy a Marvel book; 22 pages of story, for.... what is it.... $4? Monthly Shonen Jump sells for $5 and is at least 390 pages. MUCH more entertainment for the buck. 'Course they're printed on cheap paper in *gasp* black and white. Two things the Big Two-And-A-Half would never go for. It's even an anthology, which NEVER sells....

Which I think is one of the big problems they have: the Big Two-And-A-Half (and the fans who love 'em) are absolutely MIRED in old, obsolete thinking. They're not mainstream any more, but they haven't noticed. They're still doing the same sort of things they've been doing for the last 25+ years, and catering to the same fans. Now that those fans are dying off they're scratching their heads as to why nobody's buying their books. "Hmmmm.... the medium itself must be in trouble" they hypothesize.

MEANWHILE.... the medium is doing well 'cos it's moved on. The Big Two-And-A-Half have been left behind (for now*) 'cos they haven't keyed into what kid want these days. It's not big eyes and speed lines either. There's more to it than that. And the FANS of the Big Two-And-A-Half have been left behind 'cos their concept of "comics" is so narrow. You wanna talk "spoon fed market?" That's US! Thanks to stuff like Previews and Comic Shop News and Wizard WE were the ones told what to like, what's good, and worst of all who's "hot." WE were the speculators of the 80's, and WE bought the designer comics of the 90's.

Kids today LOVE comics, and best of all they READ the comics they love! It's not about value, or variant covers, or even having a full set. It's about stories. 'Course it's not the stories we were told are worthwhile, so we don't get it. "Na-rew-toe? Huh? It'll NEVER catch on...." SO really, it's not the kids that have a problem, or comics; it's US.

Don C.

*: I say for now 'cos all things are ultimately cyclical. Eventually one of the Big Two-And-A-Half will do SOMETHING that hits huge, and they'll appropriate the industry again. Just like the mid 80's. And the odds of this happening are good: even though the comics aren't currently doing well they have their characters out in other media. Sooner or later something will hit, the fans won't be able to get enough, someone will notice there's a comic attached to it, and voila! Just like Shonen Jump did: they had a few cartoons hit (notably Yugi-Oh and Naruto) and those carreid the book. Where they got smart was in NOT just pushing those stories, but sneaking other ones in. In an issue of Monthly Shonen Jump you'd get a few chapters of each: approx. 40 pages; so even if that's all you bought the book for you didn't feel ripped off. Then they'd throw in a couple of similar stories, and at least one that was completely different. They'd preview stuff too. This was brilliant, 'cos it gave them a chance to survey what other stuff the readers might like, and it let them seed stories by playing things the fans might not have known they'd like 'cos they'd never seen anything like it before. (Seriously; 33+ volumes about a guy playing tennis....) Since you'd already bought the mag chances are good you'd at least skim the other stuff. And now they have different lines selling comics to all sorts of readers. Including the most elusive of markets: girls! *gasp!*

The Big Two-And-A-Half have been DECREASING the variety of books since the 80's. A byproduct of catering to the comic shop crowd. It's only been the last few years that they've shaken that up a bit. I suspect out of desperation, but if that's what it takes to make 'em try something new so be it.

Don C.

[WheresRICHARD]

Can you tell me what Shonen Jump is?

[samurainoir]

Can you tell me what Shonen Jump is?

It's essentially the North American version of a Japanese weekly anthology manga where many of the most popular boy's titles were originally serialized before being collected into individual volumes of their own.

As Don says, It basically debunks many of the assumptions and "truisms" that have been embraced by the insular North American comic book industry over the years. It's primary audience is kids. It serializes original manga versions of some of the most popular anime airing in North America, such as Naruto and Bleach. It caters to the stuff that kids are interested in these days as well... card games, video games, anime etc. It also proves that "Anthologies Don't Sell" is a falsehood. With 300+ pages @$4.99, it's the best comics deal you can find out there now (if you like Anime/Manga)... especially as a kid with limited pocket money .

It's also notable because the comics are printed in the original "backwards" format.

[samurainoir]

Now, Disney already has so much pull at Walmart and Target and other major retailers that they can muscle their comic books onto the shelves where the non-comics-minded person can encounter them....and be drawn into collecting.

At least, that's how I see it.

You'll find this is something we often discuss around here, and we love sharing these kind of ideas!

So even though in the eighties and nineties, comics did disappear from the culture of kids and into the grown up collector shops, I think it is actually back and readily available for everyone once again (kids and adults alike).

My thoughts on the matter of mass markets is that the culture has transmogrified from the periodical marketplace of newsstands/grocery stores to the mass market of the collected editions in bookstores.

To use Don's comparison of the Japanese marketplace, what has essentially been going on over there for decades is that the weekly disposable periodicals printed on the worst paper stock (like Shonen Jump) have fed into actual collected book editions that seem to dominate Japanese bookstores. Thus the popular titles are kept in print long after the periodicals have found their way into the waste bins, and have now found huge success internationally as well!

This is what has happened with the North American comic market to some extent. With the mass market demand of DC Comics' Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns collected editions leading to our current trade paperback culture of keeping those volumes in print indefinitely starting in the late eighties. Rolling Stone and every other media outlet were doing their "Bang Pow! Comics Not for Kids Anymore" articles, unexpected free publicity for DC, which sent many people going in search for this "Dark Batman" comic book. Of course they would get to the store and the things were generally sold out, or only volume 3 was available. Immediately after completion, DC printed the collected editions and the rest is history.

This of was made possible because DC was part of a multimedia conglomerate, Time-Warner. What they did was leverage the Book production and distribution aspects of the Warner Book empire and they had deep enough pockets to invest in the long term. They could use the existing warehousing and book distribution channels to print enough to keep it in stock and available to retails over the long haul... for both bookstores and the direct comic shop market. Not that their bookstore plans were an overnight success, I'm sure there are probably boxes and boxes of those DC Science Fiction adaptations of things like Ray Bradbury's Frost and Fire, and Harlan Ellison's Demon with a Glass Hand, gathering dust in a warehouse somewhere.

Marvel is actually late to the game. Smaller company, pockets not so deep, needing to grab the quick cash, bankrupcy etc. Their trade program lagged behind DC's for years with many of the collected editions going out of print until Diamond stepped in to help out with the growing book market and the demand the movies have generated for Marvel related product in the bookstores. In fact, I think it was during the nineties that overall sales for DC print-product quietly exceeded Marvel's in profitability despite the fact that Marvel was still on top of the monthly sales charts for most of the decade, because there was no method to account for the long term sales of the in-print trades that were being continually re-ordered month in and month out.

It will definitely be interested to see HOW Marvel leverages their parent company Disney to get at the Mass Market regarding comics themselves, but I have no doubt that Walmart etc could be encouraged to pick up trades if they see there is a profitable market for it if they get it at a volume and price point they can undercut the booksellers at. I seem to recall seeing Watchmen trades at one of the big chains (I can't recall which one) within the past few months and being a bit shocked... given the adult content and full forntal nudity in it.

[kryptosmaster]

Sorry but I've NEVER heard of Shogun Jumpin Beans except in EVERY other post you make here on the boards.
I was wondering when you'd try to push it again.
I HATE anime type art and have absolutely no interest in it at all.
I seriously doubt it's "the answer" either.
As for Archie, they are mostly reprints and nobody has to follow the storylines and they are still fairly innocent stories. That and their being on every checkout impulse-buy rack has a lot to do with their ability to keep publishing and make money.
Rich

[WheresRICHARD]

Sorry but I've NEVER heard of Shogun Jumpin Beans except in EVERY other post you make here on the boards.
I was wondering when you'd try to push it again.
I HATE anime type art and have absolutely no interest in it at all.
I seriously doubt it's "the answer" either.
As for Archie, they are mostly reprints and nobody has to follow the storylines and they are still fairly innocent stories. That and their being on every checkout impulse-buy rack has a lot to do with their ability to keep publishing and make money.
Rich

While I also don't like manga and anime, I think his point is a valid one: That in some respects, the comic book industry is not as much in need of "saving" as we tend to think, since some comics, even if ones we don't like, are doing quite well. They've just evolved into something that today's kids like more...and they've evolved without worrying about whether it's something that WE, as kids, would have liked.

[ctc]

>I HATE anime type art and have absolutely no interest in it at all.

Which is fine, but you obviously don't share the tastes of the majority of comic fans these days.

>I seriously doubt it's "the answer" either.

I think as a business model it is, since.... you know.... it's working. I think the problem you get is that a lot of the old schoolers look at the Japanese comics and completely miss the point as to why they're popular. LIke I said, it has NOTHING to do with "big eyes and speed lines;" although I think that's all the detractors see.

I find it sad when you hear the oldster whining about how much the new incarnations of their favourite superheroes are SOOOO badly done. And then you ask what they'd LIKE to see, and the describe a Japanese comic. And yet, they'd never think to read a Japanese comic.

>As for Archie, they are mostly reprints and nobody has to follow the storylines and they are still fairly innocent stories.

And they sell. Better than Marvel apparently. (The Archie digests have runs around 180,000 whereas; to the best of my knowledge, the average Marvel comic has a run around 75,000.) Hell; think about the complaints people here have had over their superheroes. "I just want a good, self contained story." "I think it's reprehensible, all the sex and violence in these books!" "Marvel Zombies is icky!" Makes you wonder why Archie isn't garnering more respect. In essence, using your example; they've proven the feasability of a book writen WITHIN these constraints! Books that seem to sell BETTER than books where Batman calls someone a 'tard and Spiderman eats Mary Jane's internal organs.

And yet.... nothing. Again I suspect it's that narrow definition of "comic" that a lot of us work under.

>their being on every checkout impulse-buy rack has a lot to do with their ability to keep publishing and make money.

Yup. Same with the Jumps. Them things is EVERYWHERE! People won't buy your book if they can't find it, and people will be more willing to try your book if it's price is kept around the "impulse buy" level. (You say it like it's a BAD thing!)

Don C.

[johnnystorm]

I think a key point everyone here has missed is that Disney does not do comics well. Never have. They know enough to license them out to OTHER companies to do, but when they've tried to do it themselves, they failed.

And remember, Marvel DID publish comics for Disney back in the eighties or early 90s...Beauty & the Beast, Aladdin, an anthlogy with Toy Story & Pocahontas, The Three Musketeers movie adaption, and a few other movie graphic novel adaptions as well. Went nowwhere, and I'll bet a lot of people had forgotten they even had done the books. I know I did until I happened across one the other day. I don't think getting comics into WalMart & Target will help- and Marvel had done that just a few years ago, and it also amounted to naught.

I think the bigger impact Disney may have is on the graphic novel distribution, which could end up getting pulled from Diamond Comics to another company. Would Diamond's monopoly on comic distribution fall apart if Marvel went elsewhere? Would DC take over Diamond and we go back to the two distributors for the Big Two again?

[UnderdogDJLSW]

............... I will admit here and now, that while I only pick up an issue here or there.......I enjoy reading Archie.

[MIB41]

*Sigh*... All of this "Disney is going to save the world" is so overblown I don't know where to start. What this merger DOES for Marvel is help as a financial arm in distribution. It's the same as DC Comics. DC has been owned by Warner Bros. since 1969. Do you see Bugs Bunny solving crimes with Batman? I don't think so. And I don't believe Disney is going to mess with the Marvel product anymore than Marvel is going to be appear in Disney product. You WILL see those influences in their park rides and subsequent products, but interplay between the two companies is as likely as Donald Duck fighting Howard the Duck...

[kryptosmaster]

I think a key point everyone here has missed is that Disney does not do comics well. Never have. They know enough to license them out to OTHER companies to do, but when they've tried to do it themselves, they failed.

Actually I did mention that:

Disney couldn't even do Disney Comics right back when they wrestled them away from Gladstone when they saw Gladstone making some money on them.

Rich