What can we learn from the current 1/6th Hobby?

[samurainoir]

Perhaps it's a bit of an unfair comparison given the deep history of the 12 inch cloth figure, and it's core base of Fashion Doll and Military Action Figure enthusiasts.

Butthe 1/6th action figure format did manage to return to the toy shelves in the nineties (like the recent resurgence of Mego style figures) as a Nostalgia line and evolved from there. Most notably utilizing Movie, TV, Cartoon, and Comic Book characters, something that was once the major realm of the 8" format in the 70's.

How long can a Retro line be sustained by nostalgia for the original format? (ie how long did the 12" GI Joe Retro Style Military and Adventure team last?)

What were the big "misses" in the 1/6th format? Where did they excel and evolve to, and how did they arrive there?

Can pitfalls for the 8" Mego resurgence be anticipated based on how the 12" resurgence went?

Looking at the custom culture surrounding the 12" hobby (check out ebay!), is it possible for the 8" hobby to follow there... particularly in an age where so many want to improve on the off the shelf product to suit their own tastes and needs?

[TrueDave]

From the custom intrest:

1/6th is Military Heavy as well as "real" people ( Eastwood, Kirk Douglas, John Wayne)

MEGO is Superheroes and Fantasy and more "cartoons" ( Space Ghost, etc)

I am surprised by the Twilight Zone and Dark Shadows figures as MEGO, but then theyve already been done in !/6th havent they?
Eventually we'll have all characters of Pop culture in all formats.

What would you call the 9 inch explosion in the 1990s? What was learned?

[Sandman9580]

What would you call the 9 inch explosion in the 1990s? What was learned?

That if you're Toybiz and you're gonna try to do 8-inch figures, you should make them 8-inches?

[samurainoir]

Without wandering too far off topic, Famous Covers at the 9" scale can be viewed as a success for Marvel Characters more than the format itself. In that Toy Biz IS Marvel, and thus managed to exploit their character library in this line quite successfully. Most of the Big Guns were represented, and even some second stringers... much more depth of characters than the original Mego line.

I think it's best seen as a stand-alone toyline for it's time.

I've always thought that if Mego did survive, their versions of the nineties Marvel characters wouldn't be too far off from Famous Covers and the Extreme trends of that time.

[samurainoir]

But back to the 12" format, beyond the GI Joe revival, I'd say that Star Wars had a great deal to do with the popularity of that scale in the nineties both as a nostalgia line which extended into quite a wide range of characters beyond the original 70's offerings. I can't remember, but with the merger of Kenner and Hasbro, did the 12" Star Wars figures leverage the GI Joe body?

Those were aimed at both collectors and kids in the toy aisles.

At what point did Sideshow step in and begin specific marketing of 1/6th figures towards an adult collector's market?

[torgospizza]

When they began to put out new Star Wars "Collector Series" 12"ers, they were indeed using the Hall of Fame Joe bodies. Then, later on, when the Joes started using their Classic Collection bodies (thinner, better articulation), Star Wars switched over, too. I think they eventually used a super-articulated figure when they made their "Vintage Original Trilogy Collection" in 2004. This was a line using newer figure technology in a packaging reminiscent of the 70s large size figures.

[Spyweb007]

It seems like the best way to keep the 8" format going is to embrace the custom hobby community and market "Build your own figure" kits. With kids outgrowing their toys at younger ages than past generations I think toy companies could hold on to their consumers for a longer time by doing this. After all, kids love cars and trucks, and while they may outgrow playing with them, kids and adults enjoy building models of them and don't seem to outgrow the model making hobby even after they stop playing with toys. While we here know of several places to get repro parts and supplies for building customs I've yet to see any company really put together and market a figure building kit and get them in stores, maybe even arts and craft stores like AC Moore and Michaels.

[rche]

the first redos of the SW 12" line were on a Kenner body (1996). Clicking bendy arms and legs. Not a Joe body. When Hasbro bought out Kenne, ('97ish?) they gradually changed over to the Joe style. Hasbro did run the gambit from the thick HoF bodies to the thinner classics, but they did not release all that many items on the more poseable bodies. The 1996 Chewbacca figure actually had a wire frame and no plastic armature at all.

The SW 12" line were pretty fun in the 90's, and most could be had for around $20 - $30. An interesting cost comparison to the 12" line that is happening now.

Sideshow started out with their SW license somewhere around 2005 with the Luke as a jedi figure. He was $50 at the time - well over 2x the amount Hasbro has been charging for 12" figures. But.... the sculpt was pretty good (tho the paints were iffy) and he was on a much more poseable armature with well detailed cloth goods and plenty of accessories. The SS aquisition of the 12" Star Wars line was definitely an indicator of the way many 12" lines were going, although it was not that apparent at the time.

[Sandman9580]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Universal Monsters line Sideshow's first big push into 1/6 scale? I was a huge fan of SS's sculpted UM figures, and I remember being disappointed (at first) when that line was cancelled - or rather "converted" to 1/6th scale. Their stated reason was that that format would allow more obscure characters to be done. (Compare this to more recent times when SS said they were canceling LOTR 12-inch because of "low sales and all the unique tooling" that needs to go into each character. They've stated [in a different context] that as a company they're at a different level now and the days of doing obscure characters are over.)

As for the 12" revival being spear-headed by Hasbro's Star Wars, my first instinct is to agree, because that's how I got into it. But I wonder what effect the GI Joe and super-realistic Military stuff had; I can't even feign interest in military figures... so I don't know. Whenever I somehow Google my way onto the One Sixth Warriors forum I feel like I'm in a weird, parallel universe.

As for trying to think of what some of the pitfalls of the 1/6th hobby were, the phrase "highly inflated prices" sure comes bullying its way to the front of the line. It's something I have mixed feelings about, because if there weren't collectors willing to spend hundreds of dollars on a single figure, there would have been no consumer base on which to build a company like Hot Toys. On the other hand, it seems like Sideshow's 1/6th scale prices increased about 250% after they started distributing Medicom and Hot Toys. (And yeah, I realize there were a lot of factors in that - but I've never been able to shake the feeling that Sideshow adjusted their expectations a little after seeing just what the market would pay. Their first Universal Frankenstein 12-inch figure was $40!) I'm all for quality, but I'd hate to start seeing "Limited Editions" and sky-rocketing prices in the 1/9 arena.

It will be interesting to see what position Zica occupies in the near future. To use what I trust isn't too flawed an analogy, I sort of see EMCE in a similar light as Polar Lights/Playing Mantis - sort of the nostalgic torch bearer of an earlier company's style, while Zica is more similar to Sideshow - taking a format and modernizing it with more detail and realism. Unlike Sideshow though, Zica seems really intent on building a relationship with customizers. I think that's smart and I hope that strategy pays off.

[Blitzkid]

The clicky bendy arms body for the SW '96 12" line Were G.I.joe Hall of fame bodies Not kenner-early versions of These bodies were made in 1991 For the target exclusive Duke(First new 12" hasbro Joe figure since the 70's)The improved body was then sold to all retailers as a line of 4 figures(G.I.joe hall of fame series 1) which was then used for Action Man Across the pond,And eventually Star wars in 1996-Hasbro bought tonka in 1992 which kenner was a part of and run seperately in the beginning, by the mid to late 90's they had put the kenner name on some gi joe packaging(those developed in cincinnati) and hasbro name on some star wars packaging(those developed in rhode island) about 97-98 they closed the kenner building and everything went Hasbro from then on-Thought I'd explain the 90's 12" SW figure body.

But back on topic:

The 1/6th scale fad was resurected by the gi joe hall of fame,Finally made a splash with the 96 gi joe classic collection(because of realism and articulation-for it's time)was forced to grow because of the late great 21st century toys raising the bar in 1/6th military,they were like mcfarlane for 1/6th but durable.the 12" fig revival led to countless figures including star wars and adventure team and other properties in that scale-the expansion to non military did not grow enough because of a lack of available non green aisle accessories and ultimately died because of a glut of military product on shelves that was way over produced and re hashed in new packaging and lack of identity lost between either "collectible" or childs toy. it sounds fun but a star wars kid after buying a 12 " luke will not want a hasbro WWII pilot accessory pack. there was too much of the same stuff for several years and that killed the main stream market for 1/6th which is now pretty much online and higher end.

I like the 8" market as is now and it still has some challenges like becoming standard in retail again(Larger quantities better pricing for us and after all we want kids to experience toys again,but I don't see it) and accessories and play sets have yet to be fully explored at a retail level.
could it work I think Emce can do it and do it right.
Basically let's hope the 8" format does not find it's doom through over saturation and staleness like 1/6th did.

[Blitzkid]

When it comes to Famous covers I Loved them and Had A bunch but they were too big to be mego and too small for 1/6th-I consider them a stand alone line but The way they were designed they should have just been 1/6th scale at the time.

That being said I consider Famous covers to be one of the 90's better toy lines and one of toy biz's best.

The hasbro DC and marvel 9" figures looked great but had the big no-no non removable clothing and funny boot feet-Never liked the design of the body on those.
9" playmates star trek looked great but lacked articulation and I don't think was ever considered anything more than a collectible line.

if the 8" format can avoid the cost cutting pit falls/identity issues of the toy lines described above and maintain retro toy design,feel and Quality,Which I feel EMCE does best,with the exception of some quality control issues,2 left hands,feet etc. and tension issues with rubber bands and upper arms. so far the universal monster line has fixed all those problems.

Knowing that EMCE had what they called "the body summit" in another thread and that they continue to improve and add to their body types,want to make the mego scale the standard once again through their own toy lines and helping others with theirs(bif bang pow,capt'n eli) tells me there will be continued growth to "MEGO" product for years to come.

-NICK

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

I think it’s a question of finding your market. When the 12" format was brought back for action figures, it was originally AS toys. They were priced fairly low (expensive, but comparable to stuff like Barbie) stuck to popular characters and seemed to do relatively well. When original lines were tried they seemed to do not as well. (Stuff like Max Steel.) Not BAD; but not as good. So the shift went towards collectibles as opposed to toys. Companies came about producing hyper-detailed and realistic stuff which was REAL expensive, but not meant to really be played with; and THAT became the standard.

I dunno if the same thing could/would happen to the 8" format. Right now it seems like they’re still testing the water. We get stuff clearly INTENDED as toys, like the superheroes; and stuff clearly intended as collectibles. Like Anthrax and Lost. Considering that, I think we’re still waiting to see how things are gonna go.

Don C.

[samurainoir]

Whenever I somehow Google my way onto the One Sixth Warriors forum I feel like I'm in a weird, parallel universe.

I've only recently begun dipping my toe into the 1/6th hobby and forum's like One Sixth Warriors, Sideshow Freaks, Toy World HK, and others do seem like a weird parallel universes to the Mego Museum (everyone has goatees!). Particularly since I'm not much interested in the Military hobby as well, which is a major driving force in that realm.

From what I have been able to glean at a glance, the small and insular nature of the Mego community does have it's benefits... this is the closest thing I've seen to "Open Source" Toy making this side of the Lego community.

Since all the toy companies are basing their designs on the original Mego in general, so far there is a compatibility with parts and sizing. I've found Kit bashing at 1/6th to be a major challenge due to all the companies in the field producing product. There are so many different combinations of heads, bodies, hands and feet... many of which are totally incompatible with each other.

Also... I can't think of any other situation where pretty much all the relevant companies are on one forum interacting with the core group of collectors on an almost daily basis. Not only do some of them draw upon customizer's within this community for the prototyping, I've also never seen such responsiveness to the concerns over the product raised in these forums. We've seen subsequent iterations of Product that has been improved with input from the Mego Museum membership.

If the 1/9th hobby grows, can we maintain that kind of community between the developers and the end users? Can we remain open to contributions from potential younger generations of hobbyist with different tastes and preferences?

[samurainoir]

I would also love to hear the opinions of international collectors since many of us only have the North American perspective on the 12" hobby.

Action Man based on the 12" GI Joe was never discontinued in some parts of Europe correct? And Max Steel is still pretty big in Mexico from what I've seen (were they just dumping unsold North American product there?).

Where did the resurgence begin in Japan? Henshin Cyborg re-releases? Combat Joe? I know North America started to get Medicom Real Action Heroes as imports a dozen or so years ago, but I only recently saw the earlier iterations of the RAH figures that preceded the black boxed ones. I believe they were mostly based on Ultraman and Kamen Rider?

I know Hong Kong's big push was via Military lines that were also exported to the west... most notably Dragon? From there you get the other high end companies like Triad and eventually Hot Toys. The movie lines we are seeing now actually began with Asian film and celebrity tie ins right? I recall seeing import action figures baased on Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Chow Yun Fan, Andy Lau, and figures based on the movie Hero for example.

[samurainoir]

One other concern... we've now seen the 12" cloth outfit figure for the most part leave the affordable confines of the local Toys R Us/Walmart and disappear for the most part into the realm of ultra high end adult collectors.

The 12" Star Trek movie figures were a wash, and I don't think GI Joe The Rise of Cobra did that well as 12" either. Star Wars simply seemed to run it's cycle through the rerelease of the original trilogy in the nineties to the prequels earlier in the decade.

Is this just cyclical as the hobby swings back to a focus on 3 3/4" (Rising oil prices, 80's kids growing up and buying for their kids) or does this not bode will for the 1/6th hobby if they are not getting kids into it now? Or is it that kids just want the figures that look just like their animated counterparts... which tends to go against the more standardized forms of the cloth figure (Venture Brothers notwithstanding)... I'm thinking Ben 10 and Airbender.

It will be interesting to see how Marvel/Captain Action does at the 1/6th scale.