No two packs until October.

[warlock664]

Just curious, what did FTC tell you when you talked to them about this?

Jeez, he can't disclose that, he was "told in confidence", just like someone else on this site with insider info.

(wise4671, this isn't intended as a dig towards you)

[jayraytee]

I think it's also worth noting that a lot of online retailers have started saying a product is 'shipped' when they enter it in their system as such. We even see this with the guy selling on eBay that generates a tracking number with the USPS software he uses at home, but when you try to use that tracking number, it says the item isn't in transit yet. I think too many retailers are broadening to the definition of 'shipped' to 'we've received your order and have begun processing it'.

Another example: Let's say you use a drop-shipper, and sell an item, then turn around and order that item from the drop-shipper to satisfy the order. If it turns out that the drop-shipper can't satisfy your order, then you can't satisfy the sale you made.

As someone else said, it's not always black helicopters overhead.

Nope. This is two different things.
Online retailers, with their own site and shopping cart system, sign contracts with each credit card company agreeing to the rules of processing their (VISA, Mastercard, Discover, American Express) cards. These contracts state that you can't charge people until the product transaction is made. So if it's a mail order business you are not supposed to charge people until the product is actually ready to ship (ie: in your hands.) Anything contrary to this agreement can cause you to lose your registration with that card company resulting in you losing the ability to take that specific credit card.

Then there is the UPS software that prints the label and sends the email and gives a tracking number. Ebay sellers might have this without having the above credit card registration, since they use ebay/paypal for processing. The above online merchants might use this system for shipping as well.

In both cases the tracking number will not show up in the system until it is scanned by Fedex/UPS/USPS. Which means someone might print the labels and box up the product and either not take it up to the shipper for a couple days or miss the shipper 'pickup time.' In which case, they are supposed to get them out the next day. If they print shipping labels and hold onto them for say a week and then ship the product they can also get into trouble with the shipping services because that makes it look as though the shipping service is much slower than they are because the date at which the label is printed is the start date and the delivery date is the end of the shipping time.

So it doesn't matter who it is, once you charge the credit card and print the label with the automated 'shipped' email, you are on the hook to ship the product immediately.

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

Kind of did that from the start. I'm not speculating anything everything I stated is actual fact. Read the post that I myself posted. I made no accusations what so ever I only stated that FACT 1 credit cards were charged before product was ready to ship (which they should not have been per THERE pre order policy) 2 I got an email stating that everything they charged me for was shipped out. So as you can see this is NOT speculation but fact you however are speculating. You called me out telling me to relax. If you have nothing but SPECULATION to add then don't call me out you don't know me I do not speak with you on this site or in the real world. It's members like yourself that is ruining this site for me personally. People cant seem to post anything anymore without some " know it all" trying to "speculate" what's going on. Just speak facts .

Just curious, what did FTC tell you when you talked to them about this?

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

If the product was ready, but the truck was delayed, then what is the delay until October? I hypothesized that they need money, lex parsimoniae, it is the hypotheses that requires the least assumptions.

But that hypothesis is based on your knowledge of the situation, which could be completely flawed. ie there could be several reasons for the delay that you have no knowledge of. And if you had this knowledge, you might see that your original assumption (based on incomplete information) was completely off base.

I do agree with you that they shouldn't have charged the credit cards when the products weren't technically ready to ship. It is my GUESS based on what I've been told that they assumed that the product would be available earlier, which is why they went ahead and charged the cards to speed up the shipping process. I think MIB is close, I think they knew that they had fanboys waiting on this product so they chose to make the move that would get them their money a day or so quicker, and get us fanboys our products a day or two quicker. But they hit a snag that they weren't counting on that was out of their control.

That's my guess.

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

Yeah, I see no problem with a small delay either. As for the CC charge I wouldn't like them to charge my card even if they had these ready to ship but they must at some point.

I think it's also worth noting that a lot of online retailers have started saying a product is 'shipped' when they enter it in their system as such. We even see this with the guy selling on eBay that generates a tracking number with the USPS software he uses at home, but when you try to use that tracking number, it says the item isn't in transit yet. I think too many retailers are broadening to the definition of 'shipped' to 'we've received your order and have begun processing it'.

Another example: Let's say you use a drop-shipper, and sell an item, then turn around and order that item from the drop-shipper to satisfy the order. If it turns out that the drop-shipper can't satisfy your order, then you can't satisfy the sale you made.

As someone else said, it's not always black helicopters overhead.

[jayraytee]

Just speaking as a fellow retailer. We process hundreds of orders per day. We don't have time to craft an email for each individual customer to notify them when their order has shipped. Our shipping notification emails are on an automated system scheduled to go out the moment a shipping label is produced. FTC likely has a similar automated system tied to billing.

Thats the crux of it. No matter what the reason for the 'delay,' the fact is as stated above, they charged everyone before the product was ready to ship causing the automated emails saying the product was shipped. Those automated systems work that way because thats how the 'credit card' business is supposed to be handled. You are not supposed to charge anyone until you have the product so you can ship it. (Since as you charge the shipping label is printed and the email is sent out.) Then someone wrote and asked them and they said that the truck was delayed and the items would ship the following week, I remember because people were aggrivated that the following Monday was labor day and the mail wouldn't ship that day. Now they are saying it won't be until October. If the product was ready, but the truck was delayed, then what is the delay until October? I hypothesized that they need money, lex parsimoniae, it is the hypotheses that requires the least assumptions. But even without that, they were in the wrong to charge people before having the product to ship and if its going to be delayed until October, then technically they should reimburse the credit card transactions until the product is actually ready to ship. Of course they can't do that, if they used the money already.

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

It actually doesn't matter what the ' secret cause' of the delay was

Then why publicly claim that they are 'hard up for money' and purposely lying to their customers? IMO that's a pretty serious claim to make, even if you frame it as you are 'guessing' that's what happened.

[Boywonder0]

Yeah, I see no problem with a small delay either. As for the CC charge I wouldn't like them to charge my card even if they had these ready to ship but they must at some point.

[MIB41]

I think it's pretty evident someone down the production chain fed them some bad communication on availability. And in their haste to capitalize on an early release to please their base, they made a knee jerk decision to start processing orders. I doubt there is anyone who would like a redo more than them right now. I see no upside to what happened. For me, I'm glad they identified the problem, owned up to the mistake, and said so on their social page. I also like the fact they didn't try to roll someone under the bus like another company does. They took ownership. It's a system filled with human interaction so mistakes do happen. Now depending on how you paid for these items, you were either already charged when you first pre-ordered it or are among those who were accidentally charged before availability. Their customer service has always been excellent. If being charged now does not work for some here, call them up. Past experience has shown me, they work hard for customer satisfaction.

[Boxheadman]

Only trying to help friend. Didn't expect to be met with such hostility. Sorry I got you all worked up. Wasn't my intention.

[Wise4671]

Kind of did that from the start. I'm not speculating anything everything I stated is actual fact. Read the post that I myself posted. I made no accusations what so ever I only stated that FACT 1 credit cards were charged before product was ready to ship (which they should not have been per THERE pre order policy) 2 I got an email stating that everything they charged me for was shipped out. So as you can see this is NOT speculation but fact you however are speculating. You called me out telling me to relax. If you have nothing but SPECULATION to add then don't call me out you don't know me I do not speak with you on this site or in the real world. It's members like yourself that is ruining this site for me personally. People cant seem to post anything anymore without some " know it all" trying to "speculate" what's going on. Just speak facts .

[Boxheadman]

I never claimed to be speaking on behalf of anyone. Just speaking as a fellow retailer. We process hundreds of orders per day. We don't have time to craft an email for each individual customer to notify them when their order has shipped. Our shipping notification emails are on an automated system scheduled to go out the moment a shipping label is produced. FTC likely has a similar automated system tied to billing. I am speculating just like you so take my opinion for what it is worth, not much.

[Wise4671]

I really don't think there are any black helicopters. It's common for retailers to charge your card just before we ship. They thought they were getting the product in or they would not have told you otherwise. They likely wanted to ship as soon as possible and get all of their ducks in a row. The first step, is charging your card. If you honestly think they are so hard-up for money that they are desperately charging your cards to run on enough fumes to get them by, then there is no reason to talk about the future of their product as they will be bankrupt in a few months. Relax.

I don't really give a crap if they are hard up for money or not. They are a business and stated that your card will be charged when the product is ready to ship. The second thing is they sent out emails straight away saying that the items have been shipped. If you want to talk about the future of a company the future should be built on trust once you loose that it is a hard thing to get back. Instead of telling people to relax maybe you should let us in on what is really going on you may find out that we can be pretty understanding when we are kept in the loop. And if you don't know or don't work for FTC then don't be telling anyone to relax.

[jayraytee]

I was told in confidence what the cause of the delay was but this is completely off base.

It actually doesn't matter what the ' secret cause' of the delay was, the facts remain that they charged people before they were able to ship the product, which is against the agreements merchants make with the credit card companies and they sent out emails stating that the product was shipped. Those two things are 'on base.' So the question would be, why? Which makes more sense, some secret cause that is given to you in confidence or that they needed money?

Technically if Mastercard and Visa caught wind of it they would make them refund the money until the product could be shipped or they could lose their registration with them.

[Boxheadman]

I really don't think there are any black helicopters. It's common for retailers to charge your card just before we ship. They thought they were getting the product in or they would not have told you otherwise. They likely wanted to ship as soon as possible and get all of their ducks in a row. The first step, is charging your card. If you honestly think they are so hard-up for money that they are desperately charging your cards to run on enough fumes to get them by, then there is no reason to talk about the future of their product as they will be bankrupt in a few months. Relax.