My letter to Hasbro...a toy rant.

[enyawd72]

I must be totally out of touch (or delusional ), but I have no idea who these characters are...

Quentin Quire is a telepathic Eminem with pink hair. Personally, I'll take that sixth figure of the Beetle.

[Gorn Captain]

Dwayne, I sincerely hope your opinion on the line changes and you begin to find more of what you want. It's never fun when the things we love are so hard to find that we don't love them anymore, but taking your frustrations out on fellow fans (and I apologize for doing the same) is no way to vent that anger.

Well said, I agree. There should be room for old and new characters.
But it makes sense that a lot of us here go for the more classic characters. Mego collectors are usually older fans, so logically we'll prefer older characters, the ones we grew up with. I'm that kind of collector. All you need to give me is Mego-style Classic X-men, and I'll be happy for years to come.

[Toy Timelord]

Quentin Quire is a telepathic Eminem with pink hair. Personally, I'll take that sixth figure of the Beetle.

He's actually a lot more complex than that. That pic is misleading, he is nothing like Eminem. He doesn't even look like him, as Quentin usually wears glasses, and has longer hair.

He's a kid who means well, but has a rebellious streak in him. The good X-Men want him on the straight and narrow, but he's a natural rebel and contrarian (probably why I like him so much), and has caused as much trouble as he's done good. He's got more in common with Magneto than Charles, but he truly wants to do good, deep down.

But he's been the star of two volumes of Wolverine and the X-Men (great book, highly recommended) even though Wolverine gets the headline.

I'm not saying 'Don't do the Beetle', I'm saying 'Don't do the Beetle, but neglect Quire'. Do both, then we're both happy.

[Toy Timelord]

Well said, I agree. There should be room for old and new characters.

Agreed.

But it makes sense that a lot of us here go for the more classic characters. Mego collectors are usually older fans, so logically we'll prefer older characters, the ones we grew up with. I'm that kind of collector. All you need to give me is Mego-style Classic X-men, and I'll be happy for years to come.

And that's fine. But bashing characters (and for my part in that, I apologize) doesn't make you look good in the eyes of those characters' fans, and most characters have fans. Many thousands of them, in fact.

There's nothing wrong with some lighthearted ribbing, now and then (Which is what enyawd72 was doing above, which is cool) but there's a difference between ribbing, and being vicious for viciousness sake. The fans of ethnic characters do not view them as tokens, or space fillers. They are important, and them taking up mantles of established heroes legitimizes them. Nobody says you have to like them, or buy their books, but marginalizing them is exactly why they matter in the first place.

I think we both let our passions run a little hot, and it overtook our senses (at least that's my experience, I can't speak for Dwayne), but cooler heads seem to have prevailed, and I hope Dwayne eventually gets his Beetle, and classic GOTG. I'd probably buy Yondu myself.

And I want Gladiator's kid as much as I want Quire!

[enyawd72]

^No hard feelings Timelord. Believe me, I have no problem with ethnic characters. What I have a problem with is what I feel are token characters like Kamala Khan and Miles Morales. We already have a Ms. Marvel and a Spider-Man. Heck we have three or four Spider-Men if you count 2099 and all that clone crap. My point is, instead of reassigning an established character to try and make headlines, come up with something NEW.

Marvel didn't need to do what they did here...they're already diverse. Back when the only minority character at DC was Cyborg, Marvel had the Falcon, Power Man, Black Panther, Storm, Jim Rhodes, Sunfire, Warpath, Thunderbird, White Tiger, etc. All great heroic characters...and all ORIGINAL.

Back then, Marvel actually took risks...they weren't afraid to create original minority characters and let them stand on their own merits, and they ALL succeeded. Nowadays, they're too afraid to take that chance so they reassign established characters and hope the public accepts them.

All this race swapping started with Ultimate Nick Fury which, although successful, was a mistake IMO. It fundamentally changed the character, although Marvel has tried to retcon it since by making him Nick Fury Jr.
Since then there have been five white Marvel characters made black in film. Kingpin, Alicia Masters, Nick Fury, Electro, and most recently the Human Torch.
Anybody who doesn't agree with this casting is labeled a racist, which I find absolutely absurd and completely one sided, because no one could recast Jim Rhodes or the Falcon as white without facing a huge media backlash, even though there is absolutely nothing inherent to either of their characters which requires them to be black.

It's all just a sad product of this PC world we live in.

[Gorn Captain]

Interesting point about changing characters, especially race and gender. I never really understood why that happens. As is a writer couldn't possibly invent a new character that was black and female, for example.
I think Jackson does a decent Nick Fury, but I never understood why this happened, unless of course it's "we need a black guy in there".

I think I'm possibly the wrong guy to join this talk, because I have stopped reading new comics. After 40 years of loyal readership, I felt "Been there, done that". I no longer enjoy the style of art and writing of modern comics. That is why these characters are new to me, and I have no affinity for them. I am glad that there are more ethnic characters, but I hope that older ones also get their chance to shine again.

[Toy Timelord]

I'm not gonna get into a discussion about hollywood whitewashing, except to say it happens more than the opposite. We have reached a peaceful balance in this thread, and I intend to keep it.

That said, I thought Ms. Marvel was vacant? Carol Danvers had graduated to Captain Marvel. Nobody seemed to have an issue with it.

Your mileage may vary, but I have never had a problem with alt universe changes in the script (The movies and Ultimate universe are alt universes, same as 2099), I like having my expectations turned on ear from time to time.

Though I can definitely understand one's reservations regarding those changes creeping into regular continuity, and while some of it may feel like diversity for diversity's sake, it CAN happen organically.

Choosing established titles and roles, instead of forging new ones is also often a safer bet. Steel never really took off, though he could've been DC's Iron Man. But Jaime Reyes (despite any reservations about Ted Kord, who I still love) has proven successful, and a great character.

Likewise, I LOVE the new Nova, but Richard Rider is coming back. Not sure how long Sam can last, but I'll enjoy it so long as he does.

Cyborg, an original creation who has been around since the 80s, and Falcon, who's almost a decade older, are only NOW getting the exposure they deserved all along. Both had early Merch (Falcon had a Mego, which was great, and also a Secret Wars figure, and Cyborg had a Super Powers figure, but it was a late, and thus rare addition to the line). War Machine has fared much better, but it still took a decade and a half for him.

Dwayne is right though. Classics are classic for a reason. A big issue with that, however, is that so many classic characters are white, because they come from a time when representation didn't happen. Kids want to see themselves in the characters they love. That is why a Black Spider-Man matters. If it were Black Panther who is not as high profile as Spider Man, it would not be equal or matter as much.

What one person may look upon as a PC push, some child may look upon as legitimization, as an example that not only white kids can dream of being as important as Spider Man.

I love the diversification. I don't mind new characters taking familiar names. I take issue with a character such as Alan Scott being gay (Though I have no issue with gay characters) and I would take issue with Lois Lane being turned Hispanic.

But if that were to occur in an 'alternate' universe, such as TV, Movies, or the Ultimate Universe? I'm okay with it.

^No hard feelings Timelord.

Absolutely none taken, and no hard feelings in return. I understand and respect your opinion.

[Toy Timelord]

Was at TRU today, and they had the new MU figures. Blew me away that they took a gamble on Grim Reaper.

Now, I LOVE Grim Reaper. Ever since I got his trading card in Impel's second series of Marvel Universe trading cards. But when was he last relevant? I know he was a bit player in Civil War, but has he done anything relevant since?

Cool costume, but I just don't think he's gonna sell well. I bought him, because it was the perfect figure for me, but what kid is gonna know who he is, and what adult is gonna care?

Bold move by Hasbro, I'll give 'em that. But he is short packed.

[thunderbolt]

He's shown up in both recent Avengers cartoons, so he has some kiddy recognition.

[Toy Timelord]

Ahh, was unaware of that.

Fair enough then.

[Boris71]

Not wishing to stir up issues here but I think that if a line is labelled as Marvel Legends or DC Universe Classics, then I would say you expect to have it to be made up of figures that have a legendary of Iconic status, or to have the classic version of that character not a modern one, but when you have a line called Marvel Universe of Infinites or DC Unlimyed then I would say any character moder or classic can be expected

[Toy Timelord]

And I would counter with: When did they ever say that name meant only old characters? They were doing modern versions all throughout the line. Both lines. The word 'classics' doesn't mean 'vintage only' it means 'iconic'.

[Boris71]

I would disagree with that the first few waves of both featured the older versions of the characters and I would say classics definitely implied older versions of characters, you buy a record with the word classic in the title you wouldn't expect to have a modern track on it, personally I like some modern designs some I prefer classic, I love the A-Bomb character but am so so on the bucky cap on the Steve Rogers outfit from the same era

[Toy Timelord]

Tom Petty's Greatest Hits album featured a brand new song. Granted, that song DID become a Classic (Mary Jane's Last Dance), but was brand new when the album dropped.

So no, Classic doesn't mean old. Especially as it applies to toylines. Never has, never will. Wishful thinking by fans trying to shoehorn their personal bias onto something that has demonstrated consistently, precisely the opposite.

[Boris71]

wow you do like to have everything your way or no way don't you, maybe it's you that's shoehorning thinks to fit your view?