Captain Action Round 2 New York Toy Fair 2014

[hedrap]

I really liked the finished products, but this line and brand has no chance in its current, decades-long form. It made sense back in the 60's to have one figure and multiple costumes because the market didn't have any Marvel or DC figures available in GI Joe/Action Figure form. That's no longer applicable.

[MIB41]

I really liked the finished products, but this line and brand has no chance in its current, decades-long form. It made sense back in the 60's to have one figure and multiple costumes because the market didn't have any Marvel or DC figures available in GI Joe/Action Figure form. That's no longer applicable.

I think you make a good point. I liked what they put out, but the reality is the concept is long dated. Having a 12 inch figure that dressed up like your favorite superhero in the late 60's was a novelty given that was your ONLY alternative to superhero figures. But even with zero competition on that licensing front, the line still sold poorly. So it's never been a product that had a golden period in popularity. And when you compare it to the incredible popularity of Megos a few short years later, it really underscores how frustrating the CA concept was to the general public. Kids just wanted their superheroes. Having a mannequin underneath with a generic name and costume really confused people. And as you can see, that concept remains puzzling to consumers even now.

Allot of us come from that original generation so we get it. But we also come from an era where working your imagination was part of the play time experience. Today kids want it all laid out and ready to go. And for collectors, CA has a new problem in that there are a wide array of choices in the 1/6th scale already. So making outfits and masks that are perfectly form fitting is a tremendous challenge for a marketplace that scrutinizes imperfections. This makes the idea of creating a premium format figure of Captain Action even more puzzling since improving costume designs only further negates the relevance of having Captain Action at all. The idea pretty much collapses on itself as the costumes upgrade. To me, the "Captain" was always a cost saving concept to sell the costumes. That's why they called him the "9 in 1 superhero". It also promoted a playtime quality, which is NOT a concept associated with premium format figures. So I think as these lines continue to fail, this idea will likely go back into the closet.

[warlock664]

^^^
Agree with all of this.
The Captain Action concept still appeals to me sentimentally because I had a few of the original figures and costume sets in the late 60's, when there were no other superhero action figures in town. But when Mego's WGSH line hit in late '72/early '73, I quickly abandoned CA in favor of a more widely diverse line of heroes and villains in 8" scale.
I think this last run of CA costumes were really well-executed, and I'm glad to have them in my collection, but I can't see them ever being successful on a large scale. As Tom said, the original CA line sold poorly enough that it was cancelled within 3 years, and that was at a time when the 12" GI Joe line, using a similar "figure + uniform/accessory sets" formula, was at its height of popularity. There's little or no chance the concept will ever succeed in today's market, appealing mostly to an aging and nostalgic niche demographic.

[enyawd72]

^^^
And I agree with you both. Really, the only reason I bought CA wasn't for the Captain himself, but because I wanted 1970's era 12" Marvel Superheroes, and this was the only way to get them. But I had serious quality issues with the last two sets. I had to buy three Iron Man sets just to cobble together one good outfit, and I still don't have a decent Wolverine.

In hindsight, I think Round 2 would have been better off going the Playing Mantis route, but reproducing the original Marvel and DC sets instead. Originals are so ridiculously expensive and hard to obtain on the secondary market, I'd have paid $100 or more for straight up repros of the original Cap and Spider-Man.

[Hedji]

That's exactly where I'm at. I would kill for the originals, but can't afford them. CA was before my time. Didn't find out about him until adulthood. But the vibe is just so cool. PM had it right. They are niche, but I think this line could've worked if they had abandoned the dream of selling mass market quantities at Toys R Us, and instead appealed to the retroists with faithful repros, sold exclusively through Diamond or online.

[drquest]

Keep in mind that Playing Mantis and Round 2 are related, and the PM line didn't exactly sell like hotcakes either. PM had the retailers locked in, Kaybee, and TRU, but didn't have the licenses. Now they have the licenses but no retailers and no current product as we know it.

As stated above, Ideal's line only lasted a few years, it sold well, but not GiJoe well and what kid wants to go to the store to get a new action figure and they are out of figures but have racks of costumes.

Same deal today, figures and no costumes, or costumes and no figures. Also all of the waste spent on buying a C/A figure for every costume because you get extra boots, hat, jumpsuit belt etc.... It's a different time, and maybe Captain Action as we know him doesn't fit in this anymore.

I may be mistaken but believe their licenses are for the costumes only and not the fully uniformed sets like FTC is making.

Any way you look at it, people want the DC sets in any form they can get. Hot Toys has the high end, FTC the 8", heck Mattel made the Barbie versions, just make them and people will buy them I think.

[drquest]

That's exactly where I'm at. I would kill for the originals, but can't afford them. CA was before my time. Didn't find out about him until adulthood. But the vibe is just so cool. PM had it right. They are niche, but I think this line could've worked if they had abandoned the dream of selling mass market quantities at Toys R Us, and instead appealed to the retroists with faithful repros, sold exclusively through Diamond or online.

Even if Round 2 would sell directly, people would buy them.....

Also don't give up on vintage, the prices are much lower than it used to be. I have an extra complete vintage Captain America and Phantom costumes available, and just add a figure and you're on your way. Piecing the sets together is fun too..

[hedrap]

Allot of us come from that original generation so we get it. But we also come from an era where working your imagination was part of the play time experience. Today kids want it all laid out and ready to go. And for collectors, CA has a new problem in that there are a wide array of choices in the 1/6th scale already. So making outfits and masks that are perfectly form fitting is a tremendous challenge for a marketplace that scrutinizes imperfections. This makes the idea of creating a premium format figure of Captain Action even more puzzling since improving costume designs only further negates the relevance of having Captain Action at all. The idea pretty much collapses on itself as the costumes upgrade. To me, the "Captain" was always a cost saving concept to sell the costumes. That's why they called him the "9 in 1 superhero". It also promoted a playtime quality, which is NOT a concept associated with premium format figures. So I think as these lines continue to fail, this idea will likely go back into the closet.

Funny, I edited my original post because it felt too off-the-rails, but now that you bring it up...

IMO, they really only have two choices for relevancy. Reinvent the brand so "Captain Action" becomes more of an adjective for the kid playtime and not a character, then follow the EMCE/Marvel or FTC models so the BAF aspect replaces the dressup. Or...sell/license the brand with Hasbro to finally merge it with GI Joe. CA could become the SHIELD of GI Joe and he has a built-in enemy/origin with Zartan.

[levyguy]

Just want to mention Ideal's Captain Action was NOT a poor seller. It sold very well the first year and ok the second. Sales dropped the third year with the "superhero fad" ending and the Batman TV show at the bottom of the ratings.

According to John McGonagle, CA sold nearly as well as GI JOE in 1966.

Also, GI JOE's sales dropped sharply in 1968 as well.

PM did a great job with CA and if they had the DC and Marvel licenses sales would have been very good.

[levyguy]

I wish Round 2 had followed in PM footsteps and packaged the figures and line as PM and Ideal did, reproducing the figures as close to possible to Ideal, like PM. And of course, I very much wanted the return of AB and new DC sets for him.

[MIB41]

I wish Round 2 had followed in PM footsteps and packaged the figures and line as PM and Ideal did, reproducing the figures as close to possible to Ideal, like PM. And of course, I very much wanted the return of AB and new DC sets for him.

What's interesting is if you look at the package evolution from PM, it changed just as much as it did after they became Round 2. They started with a bigger, gaudy box for the Captain, then converted down to a cheaper, more traditional version that took on the spirit of the original coffin box (only this time they added a window). And like that original reboot, they started high on price point that ultimately depressed sales, which in turn cost them their deal at TRU. Add to the irony this reboot also suffered from delays and even more unreleased product and you see why this license has had such a hard time surviving. It's worth noting that unlike the last reboot, this line got the popular Marvel license, but it's life span of two years remains identical.

The license holders have tried to turn it into a brand name by releasing the logo and character on any product that will have them. And while I would never fault anyone for trying to diversify their product line, I find it confusing in this instance because they don't stay on message with any of it. They have a comic that depicts the Captain as a spy; the toyline as a superhero; and even talked about doing a child's cartoon that would have been something entirely different as well. And here they had a figure designed to sell popular licensed costumes which they let flounder because they kept wanting to make the figure the main attraction instead of cranking out new costumes. They seem to miss the point. It's not about the figure, it's the costumes.

[enyawd72]

^^^

THIS.

I'm still mad at them over the Red Skull...I wanted that set sooooo bad. If they hadn't wasted money on all that other stupid crap...comics, mugs, t-shirts, hats, etc. maybe they'd have had funds to you know...actually make some TOYS.
That's gotta be why they're hocking the brand to other manufacturers who can actually put out.

[The Batman Professor]

Any news from these jokers at NYCC?

[megojim]

There must be some sort of curse on this line . . . just can't ever seem to gain any traction and when it does the figures are disappointing . . .

[levyguy]

They really need to imitate the PM CA line, retro sets and figures, reproducing the Ideal ones like PM did, use the DC and Marvel characters, and direct the sales to CA collectors with reasonable prices.

It is rediculous that they are producing LA while CA and AB are nowhere. Everything is misdirected and CA has gotten buried under other stuff.

I like the 4" CA line, I hope it gets produced and somehow I can afford to get it, well, CA, AB and the SS!

I wish Round 2 would produce CA as Ideal & PM did.