David Prowse Banned from Celebration 5

[AcroRay]

I met Mr. Prowse at a comicon in Pittsburgh probably in about '93. I was a bit shocked that I had to pay $25 a pop for autographs on two figures I brought with me (one for me, and one for a friend in Italy who supplied me with Micronauti), especially since that's pretty much all the money I had with me. But the money was at least partially going to an arthritis charity, according to the program book. I hadn't really had to do that before.

He seemed a little on the cold side, but polite. There weren't many people at the show because the weather was bad, and he was in a wheelchair due to issues with his own arthritic condition, and I suspected he was probably hurting. (Signing a figure package with a big blister in his hand's way seemed a bit of a challenge.) He did warm up to my wife a bit, when she mentioned she remembered him from Clockwork Orange, and how it was another world-classic film he was in, and she mentioned she was having some physical issues because of the climate as well (due to some physical injuries she has). He even mentioned to her he was looking forward to a new treatment he was scheduled for.

But he was one of the less-social of the folks I've encountered at fan shows like that, and that was before the whole Star Wars revival that seems to have largely left him behind and opened a lot of old wounds. I can imagine he might be a pretty prickly pear at a show with all that on his mind and his physical issues. Still, anyone coming to his table probably is fully aware of Prowse's place in our cultural history, and at least thinks well enough of him for an autograph on the character he portrayed that he's otherwise been excised from by Lucasfilm. That at least deserves some mutual respect and appreciation.

It wasn't the most bubbly of encounters, but I do treasure the Vader figure he autographed (even though his signature is upside down) - 'to Ray', since I had no intention of ever re-selling it. As much as James Earl Jones, I consider Prowse to be the actor inside of my favorite Star Wars character, and you can always tell when a shot of Vader *isn't* him. And Prowse is much more accessible than Jones. When he came back a few years later I was actually going to bring my original Don Post Vader hard plastic mask to him - which I'd had since childhood - for him to sign. Unfortunately, we couldn't go due to finances.

[MIB41]

He was under the impression it was.
It says he never knew that he'd been dubbed until he saw the film.

I understand and respect what you are saying. But what Prowse assumed and what fans never heard did not make him famous. What he makes money off of, is being the guy who wore a costume on a famous film. People want to shake his hand because HE wore the costume. But the performance they know and fell in love with belongs to James Earl Jones. That vocal quality IS the character. Can you imagine Darth Vader with Prowse' voice? Nope. So the point to all of this is Prowse should be a very humble guy about the fact he has never had to worry about a paycheck since he was asked to throw on a costume for a film no one thought would make any money at that time. I think that worked out pretty good for him, don't you think?

[apes3978]

That all may be true, but was David told by Lucas that he (Prowse as Vader) would been seen in the unveiling scene, or was he just told "Oh, in the next film, Vader's gonna be unmasked"... There is a difference...

The guy played a character in these films where his voice was not used and his face was completely covered by a mask. Of course, he wished they would have at least used his voice, but he was cool with it all for a while... Then, after "Empire", Lucas told him personally, that Vader would be unmasked in the next film. Dave was elated. His face would finally be seen after all this time.

Cut to: A year and a half later... They're shooting "Jedi" and on the day of shooting, director Richard Marquand pulls Prowse aside and he's told that Sebastian Shaw will be used for the unmasking scene and read the dialog for Anakin Skywalker.

That's a true story. Put yourself in the guy's shoes... That's a pretty cruel thing to do, especially given how much he was looking forward to doing that scene.

[YANOULI]

But his vocal delivery was never intended for public consumption.

He was under the impression it was.
It says he never knew that he'd been dubbed until he saw the film.

[palitoy]

Good point too! Thanks Palitoy. You know, I'm actually surprised Prowse is allowed to go to other conventions and sign Star Wars pictures if Lucas has banned him from all Star Wars related events. It seems to me, that ban would shut him down entirely. If he's signing a photo of Darth Vader that is use of the Star Wars image.

I'm not sure what he can and can't do. In the case of Moore and West, they were banned from appearing as the characters but they could still show up and sign images of themselves.

As far as I know, Prowse never shows up in costume and I'm not sure if you legally can block him from signing pictures. His site is actually having a "Darth Vader Sale" of $10 per picture right now. Lucas can't stop him from making appearances or a living (nor should he, the guy is entitled to make appearances and support himself) but he can probably curtail his involvement with licensed conventions like they are doing.

[Mikey]

Well of course. But his vocal delivery was never intended for public consumption. Your talking about the mechanics of a shot before post production. His was merely a vocal queue for dubbing. James Earl Jones IS Darth Vader. His quality of voice and delivery is how we know the character. So the fame of Darth Vader is the voice and aesthetics of the costume, not who's wearing it.

I agree,
I'm going out on a limb here but ... It would be like asking WHO is the real Homer Simpson ? ... Dan Castellaneta or the Korean cartoonist who drew the animation cell ?

[MIB41]

That's not strictly true, he performed all Vaders lines in costume ( like Anthony Daniels did for C3PO ).
Although, whilst Daniels re-read his lines in post production Prowse was dubbed over.

Well of course. But his vocal delivery was never intended for public consumption. Your talking about the mechanics of a shot before post production. His was merely a vocal queue for dubbing. James Earl Jones IS Darth Vader. His quality of voice and delivery is how we know the character. So the fame of Darth Vader is the voice and aesthetics of the costume, not who's wearing it.

[YANOULI]

He didn't speak any dialogue. He took instruction on how to pose and when to gesture for dialogue prompts. He didn't do ANYTHING.

That's not strictly true, he performed all Vaders lines in costume ( like Anthony Daniels did for C3PO ).
Although, whilst Daniels re-read his lines in post production Prowse was dubbed over.

[MIB41]

I only compared him to Moore and West in that they were legally restricted from identifying with a character they played.

Good point too! Thanks Palitoy. You know, I'm actually surprised Prowse is allowed to go to other conventions and sign Star Wars pictures if Lucas has banned him from all Star Wars related events. It seems to me, that ban would shut him down entirely. If he's signing a photo of Darth Vader that is use of the Star Wars image.

[palitoy]

I only compared him to Moore and West in that they were legally restricted from identifying with a character they played.

[MIB41]

Thanks for the back story Cmonster. I actually met this gentleman back in 1993 at a convention in Lexington, KY ("Lextrek"). He was there with Mark Goodard (Lost in Space' Don West) and Walter Koenig (Star Trek's Chekov). At one point promoters had to ask fans to come over to Dave's table because he was literally getting no one! Now when I met him, he was a complete gentleman to me, so I can never say anything to the contrary of that experience. Clearly I either got him on a good day or he changed sometime after that event. Who knows. That being said, I have never been able to fully grasp why someone in his shoes would ever consider his role in Star Wars as anything other than an easy paycheck for the rest of his life. How can he think otherwise? He didn't speak any dialogue. He took instruction on how to pose and when to gesture for dialogue prompts. He didn't do ANYTHING.

I notice Palitoy mentioned Adam West and Clayton Moore as examples. I don't consider them "costume actors" in the way I was using the term. Sure they wore costumes, but they also gave performances. Those performances is how we see the characters, so they are entitled to the fame they have garnered. David Prowse was essentially doing little more than stuntman work like someone who would play Michael Myers or Jason in a horror film. Mr. Prowse didn't do anything more than what the extras did in the Storm Trooper outfits. The only difference for him was how his character was written. He might have had more hours at the shop, but he didn't bring any artistry to the part. No one says, "Wow Dave. What was your inspiration to clutch your fist when James Earl Jones told Luke he was his father?" You know what I mean? When we hear James Earl Jones, THAT is the performance we relate to Darth Vader. Why Prowse would feel entitlement for the fame of Darth Vader is really misplaced.

[Mikey]

I'll always have him in the same catagory as the guy that was inside the Lost In Space robot's suit.

To me the real robot was Dick Tufeld and the real Vader was James Earl Jones.

[B-Lister]

Screw him.

I don't care for movie stars that charge $25 for an autograph anyway.

I wouldn't pay $100 for Shatner, and I can see HIS face, what makes this 'costume filler' think I care?

seriously, what's his contribution to the saga?, if not him, some other seven foot tall guy would've played him. I'm sure Mayhew wouldn't have minded pulling double duty.

plus, I don't hear Mayhew whining that we never saw his face. So this primadonna attitude is ridiculous. It was thirty years ago, time to get off the teat.

and I thought Star Wars FANS were bad.....sheesh.

[palitoy]

hmmmm, I was wearing a plaid shirt when I met him....

[Cmonster]

It sounds like a raw deal from Lucas but it doesn't justify rudeness to the general public. He sets up a table at these shows, it's not like we're pestering him at his home.

I bring my kid to shows, really tried to swing C5 to be honest, it would crushing to him if Darth Vader was a dick.

Understood, Brian. You're 100% right... I was just trying to perhaps provide some background and reason why he's like that.

SC