JJ the idiot circus boy and his pretty new pet

[trekman101]

Breman & Bragna had no fire...it had just become a day job to them, and they were milking it dry. Glad they're gone...we needed J.J.!!

You said it.......Berman was Gene's "assistant"...he had no real interest in trek and when Gene died the studio handed him trek to run....don't get me wrong,there were some true trek guys working with him but he always did what he wanted anyway...the studio didn't know how to fix his mistakes and it was only when Berman was told the studio was about to pull the plug on trek(and he was going to lose his cushy job) that he put people in charge of "enterprise's last season" who new how to do trek right but by that time it was to late.
With that said ...trek needed new ideas...and JJ has them.

[trekman101]

Shatner will always be my KIRK....but Pine deserves time to show us his Kirk.

[The Bat]

Shatner will always be my KIRK....but Pine deserves time to show us his Kirk.

Well said Brother!!

[megoscott]

Found this for ya, Mike.



I was catching up with a hardcore Kirk/Shatner podcast I like and enjoyed hearing their reaction to the movie. They were pretty even handed and mostly enjoyed it, but they made some points about Kirk that I hadn't considered. I really had a good, fun, time at the movie and think all in all it was a big success., but thinking about it more I agree with a few points I've heard.

Kirk doesn't really show great leadership in the movie. We are told how brilliant he is, but what do we really see? He's more like Han Solo than Captain Kirk, a wise cracking rebel---it seems like a misunderstanding of Kirk's bravado....Quinto's Spock was more Captain-like. Kirk didn't earn command of the ship, he tricked his way into it and then was rewarded when he turned out to be right. Shatner's Kirk was bold and inventive, but not reckless. It would be one thing if they showed him growing from alienated and reckless into a real Captain, but I'm not sure they did.

Also, Shatner's Kirk was SMOOOOOOOTH with the ladies. A twinkle in his eye and a nod hello and you knew what he meant. Pine's Kirk is a fratboy hound dog, kind of a fool, really.

I'd have to say Shatner's Captain Kirk has yet to be equaled. I hope they get it better in the next movies. All in all it was a super film and I really enjoyed it. I think the surrounding cast is what really made it work.

[fallensaviour]

Found this for ya, Mike.

http://www.troubledscience.com/podcasts/kirks.jpg

I was catching up with a hardcore Kirk/Shatner podcast I like and enjoyed hearing their reaction to the movie. They were pretty even handed and mostly enjoyed it, but they made some points about Kirk that I hadn't considered. I really had a good, fun, time at the movie and think all in all it was a big success., but thinking about it more I agree with a few points I've heard.

Kirk doesn't really show great leadership in the movie. We are told how brilliant he is, but what do we really see? He's more like Han Solo than Captain Kirk, a wise cracking rebel---it seems like a misunderstanding of Kirk's bravado....Quinto's Spock was more Captain-like. Kirk didn't earn command of the ship, he tricked his way into it and then was rewarded when he turned out to be right. Shatner's Kirk was bold and inventive, but not reckless. It would be one thing if they showed him growing from alienated and reckless into a real Captain, but I'm not sure they did.

Also, Shatner's Kirk was SMOOOOOOOTH with the ladies. A twinkle in his eye and a nod hello and you knew what he meant. Pine's Kirk is a fratboy hound dog, kind of a fool, really.

I'd have to say Shatner's Captain Kirk has yet to be equaled. I hope they get it better in the next movies. All in all it was a super film and I really enjoyed it. I think the surrounding cast is what really made it work.

You make some great points,I to found his actions toward the lades less refined than shatner but I thought maybe they were just showing him as a young man liking the ladies and trying way to hard.Trying to find his way if you will.Or what works for him later on.

The spock Kirk leadership dynamic I also agree on to a point.I felt spock was more of a captain but he was a first officer/commander for a few years already.Where as kirk was just getting his first shot.Did he trick/goad spock for command Yes he did.But that is also a part of who Kirk is.How many times has he had to trick people into seeing things his way.By what ever means possible.

Pine was great as Kirk and I enjoyed watching him portray the character was he Shatner hell no,but he was great.
I think of it the same as Bond there is only one Bond and that is connery for me but I'll tell you Graig comes damn close.
Graig is to bond what pine is to kirk.In my opinion.

[megoscott]

Well, in their defense, they DID set up the story where Kirk's entire life was different from the start. He was a troubled kid because his father had been killed. So I guess you can justify all kind of changes in personality that way, but it's a bit unsatisfying.

[The Bat]

I have to disagree that Kirk was reckless. If not for Kirk...Earth would have been DESTROYED!

Nero and his Crew had already destroyed 47 Klingon Warships...and 7 of Starfleets finest Starships! Spock's logic would only allow him to strickly follow Cpt.Pike's orders, and regroup with the remains on the Fleet(and Earth would be destroyed by the time that happened). But Kirk's ability to think outside the Box, and do the unexpected(something Spock has yet learned to do)...is the ONLY reason they were able to catch Nero "off guard"...and steal Spocks Ship with the red Matter....and save Earth!

Remember, that's what Kirk does best...takes a "no win" senario...and turns death, into a fighting chance to live!

[Nostalgiabuff]

I liked the movie and am looking forward to sequels. can't wait to see where they take this new timeline. As already stated, the Shat is our generations Kirk and always will be but that does not mean there is not room for someone else to play Kirk well. I think Chris Pine did a great job.

[palitoy]

Well, in their defense, they DID set up the story where Kirk's entire life was different from the start. He was a troubled kid because his father had been killed. So I guess you can justify all kind of changes in personality that way, but it's a bit unsatisfying.

See I can swallow that pill because despite not having his father in his life, Kirk still took his rightful place as commander of the Enterprise. It's almost like the whole movie was about that course correction, now if he'd only do some drop kicks....

[huedell]

See I can swallow that pill because despite not having his father in his life, Kirk still took his rightful place as commander of the Enterprise. It's almost like the whole movie was about that course correction, now if he'd only do some drop kicks....

I think it WAS the thrust of the movie.

I am shocked they were able to make a movie like that fly
SO SUCCESSFULLY
where basically SUPERMAN RETURNS was a "course correction"
type movie (simillarly trying to link two versions of the franchises)
and failed on so many apparent levels.

I have to hand it to JJ et. al, if only for that.

With THAT chore taken care of...now they can really
feel their oats.

[palitoy]

JJ Abrams understands action, Superman Returns would have been the movie everybody raved about had Luthor created some sort of Kryptonite Monster for Superman to fight.

[huedell]

JJ Abrams understands action, Superman Returns would have been the movie everybody raved about had Luthor created some sort of Kryptonite Monster for Superman to fight.

I don't know if you saw (or heard) KEVIN SMITH echo that sentiment
---makes sense to me. I knew SUPERMAN RETURNS could've been better
and more acclaimed---but I wasn't sure how. Makes sense.

[palitoy]

I don't know if you saw (or heard) KEVIN SMITH echo that sentiment
---makes sense to me. I knew SUPERMAN RETURNS could've been better
and more acclaimed---but I wasn't sure how. Makes sense.

No but it doesn't surprise me, I find it shocking that Hollywood has only given us one Superman movie in 30 years where he fights an equally matched opponent in knock down brawl. He pretty much has done that monthly for 70 years, might be a big part of his appeal.

[Nostalgiabuff]

yeah, Superman Returns was way to talky. Not enough meat and potatos knock down drag out action. We want to see Supes kick some major ***

[Gorn Captain]

I think that what we have to keep in mind is that these are younger versions. Inexperienced. Brash.
No wonder Pine isn't a smooth and cool as Shatner.

How were WE, as youngsters?