Terminator Salvation - Review ***spoiler free***

[huedell]

....it's still better than most of the recent history
sequels to classic sci fi franchises (such as alien versus predator, Alien
resurection and T3)

No way was SALVATION better than T3.

T3 was solid overall and retained much of the TERMINATOR heart and charm
that T-bolt was referring to earlier...SALVATION had none of that.

The only moment in T4 that had any levity was the reference
to T2 and Arnold (John saying Arnold's classic: "I'll be back")
and then the classic GNR song starts to play.

And that's not even real "levity" unless you you're desperate for it!

The end of T3 was an amazing twist that set us up for another
familliar TERMINATOR movie...surprisingly set in a post-JUDGEMENT DAY world.

T4 failed to deliver....even the most basic of things...which was
to feel like a TERMINATOR movie.

[BlackKnight]

which was
to feel like a TERMINATOR movie.

Whatever.

T-4 Felt very much like a Terminator Flick ...
And was Miles ahead of a good Movie, and fitting into The Theme and World than what Superman 3 did with the Reeve's Movies.

[huedell]

Whatever.

T-4 Felt very much like a Terminator Flick ...
And was Miles ahead of a good Movie, and fitting into The Theme and World than what Superman 3 did with the Reeve's Movies.

Awwww BlackKnights still irritated about my feelings on SUPERMAN 3.

Well...you'd be more right to bring this up
in the context of this thread if the tone in S3 didn't match much of
with what came before it (which it did)....as there were spatterings of
slapstick comedy and such things in S1 and S2...

You'd also be more right if there was a less meandering plot
in SALVATION than there was in SUPES3.
SALVATION's plot was so scattershot and yet thinned out you
were bored to distraction while trying to "fall in love"
with ANY of the leading characters....some of which had been
established previously, and now in T4...nullified.
(It was nice to hear HAMILTON's voice though....she
was probably the only one I cared about in the film
and, yet she was a dead person's voice on a cassette).

You'd also be more right in picking on S3,
if there was any resemblance of anyone in the cast of T4
or resemblance to the direction and overall "look" of the filming
in the relation between T4 and T3 as there was between S2 and S3.

still,

still....I admit I'm in the minority touting any positives S3 might have
to comicbook geeks and tried to kill that debate long ago,
save my nod to it in my signature.

I don't even think S3 is all that "great" a movie just a better
movie than your typical middle aged comicbook fan thinks it is
and I enjoyed debating that...like a YEAR ago
......
.......
......
In the end...
your hurt feelings about my take on SUPERMAN 3 aren't what my
post was about

My post was about SALVATION being as dry as sandpaper toast.

You like it?

Well me? SALVATION erased any hope I have for anything else
good to come out of the TERMINATOR franchise.....how the HECK
did they rip it SO dry of any fun....any irony....anything
that made the Arnie movies so delightful?

I don't know....I guess they were trying to reboot
the series "Nolan/Bale" style and failed miserably at the transformation
of a franchise that didn't call for that kind of treatment.

Sandpaper toast.

[BlackKnight]

SALVATION's plot was so scattershot and yet thinned out you
were bored to distraction while trying to "fall in love"

I thought you Claimed to Watch the Movie ? ...
Yet I do Not remember Myself anything that , where someone was distracting ones self by trying to create a Falling in Love Story.

Perhaps you Mean Marcus,.. and that Chick... ?
I do not believe that was even Protrayed in the Light from which you Interpreted the Scene's , So with that Being said, I didn't get that from the Movie At all. You Go get lost in a War Driven Future, and Meet someone of the Opposite Sex , in a World filled with ******s, Distruction and close to Extinction,.. then tell me, you wouldn't try to be a little over Freindly to some Hot Arse Chick like that,.. that just Saved your Life, lets Say.

My post was about SALVATION being as dry as sandpaper toast.

You like it?

Well me? SALVATION erased any hope I have for anything else
good to come out of the TERMINATOR franchise.....how the HECK
did they rip it SO dry of any fun....any irony....anything
that made the Arnie movies so delightful?

This Movie is Like Star Trek ...,
If you Don't like it,.. fine I am pretty much Done Debating endless Nonsense on the Topic ..., I just will Not even address your "Dry Like Sandpaper" Statement ..., There's far Worse Crap out there, like your Superman 3 ,.. That pretty Much Butchered the Idea of the World of Superman, and his Previous 2 Great Films,.. that I can not really even Fathom your Point of View on this Film,.. taking that you enjoyed the 3 Previous T Films.

[huedell]

I thought you Claimed to Watch the Movie ? ...
Yet I do Not remember Myself anything that , where someone was distracting ones self by trying to create a Falling in Love Story.

Perhaps you Mean Marcus,.. and that Chick... ?
I do not believe that was even Protrayed in the Light from which you Interpreted the Scene's , So with that Being said, I didn't get that from the Movie At all. You Go get lost in a War Driven Future, and Meet someone of the Opposite Sex , in a World filled with ******s, Distruction and close to Extinction,.. then tell me, you wouldn't try to be a little over Freindly to some Hot Arse Chick like that,.. that just Saved your Life, lets Say.

Say WHAT now?

With respect...I think you aren't that good with understanding
a simple thing I said.

When I said the term "fall in love"

I said:

SALVATION's plot was so scattershot and yet thinned out you
were bored to distraction trying to "fall in love"
with ANY of the leading characters....some of which had been
established previously, and now in T4...nullified.

You went off on some oddball tangent like I said I was looking for a
LOVE STORY????

I said "fall in love" WITH ANY OF THE LEADING CHARACTERS...

TRANSLATION:
the characters in SALVATION were so thinnly made you couldn't connect
with them and I also added that the plot moved so slow and was so uneven,
you'd think at least the characters would be interesting,
especially since the characters (some of which were already established)
were so MUCH more interesting in the other TERMINATOR movies.

This Movie is Like Star Trek ...,
If you Don't like it,.. fine I am pretty much Done Debating endless Nonsense on the Topic ..., I just will Not even address your "Dry Like Sandpaper" Statement ..., There's far Worse Crap out there, like your Superman 3 ,.. That pretty Much Butchered the Idea of the World of Superman, and his Previous 2 Great Films,.. that I can not really even Fathom your Point of View on this Film,.. taking that you enjoyed the 3 Previous T Films.

At least STAR TREK had an element of fun in it...
(THANK GOD the producer was a STAR WARS fan!).

"My Superman 3" was also fun...and it made for a consistent tight movie
if not a "deep" and textured one....or one good enough for
people looking for something more from a superhero movie.

I respect those that thought SUPES3 was taking the mythos too far
into "goofy land",
I even agreed a bit about the schlock being too much...
but I did THAT especially when it came to simillar
elements in the overrated SUPERMAN 2.

TERMINATOR 2 is a billion times the movie that SUPERMAN 2 is...
and you can take THAT to the bank.

The SUPES franchise was already tainted before SUPES3 even started.

But, again, this wasn't about SUPERMAN 3...(you INSIST on bringing
that up time and time again)

it was about SALVATION
which was pretty boring and uninteresting and CERTAINLY lacking
any drammatic irony or fun that defined the TERMINATOR movies thus far.

Maybe if SALVATION retained ANY of the cast or filming style of it's
predecessor (like the decent SUPES3 managed to do),
then it'd have SOMETHING other than a mediocre script.
But it didn't.... so SALVATION stunk.

[fallensaviour]

T-4 I liked it.
It seemed to pull the other three films together very subtle and I rather enjoyed the over all feel of desperation the film portrayed.

It was what it needed to be and scored on most points.
It had Arnold's entrance to the franchise.
It showed how John rose to become leader.
It showed how Kyle came to be with John and why.
It showed the skin farms.
It showed how the infiltration units(terminators) were created and used.

What else were you looking for?

[huedell]

T-4 I liked it.
It seemed to pull the other three films together very subtle and I rather enjoyed the over all feel of desperation the film portrayed.

It was what it needed to be and scored on most points.
It had Arnold's entrance to the franchise.
It showed how John rose to become leader.
It showed how Kyle came to be with John and why.
It showed the skin farms.
It showed how the infiltration units(terminators) were created and used.

What else were you looking for?

ANSWER: For it to be done WELL.
--------------------------------------------

No offense, but your take on WHY it was a good movie doesn't
hold any water.

The "new" STAR WARS movies did a lot of "list satisfying"
for the SW franchise plot points such as the one you listed above
for the TERMINATOR franchise...

...and ultimately the new SW movies became a trilogy that you'd be
hard to find
ANYONE who'd say they were as good as... or kept the feel of...
the original trilogy.

I could go one by one and give a commentary on WHY
each of your points were weak in their execution...
but for now I'll just say they fell WAY short.

I can accept that you liked T4 more,
but your reasoning on HOW it was a good movie
is as paper thin as I thought the T4 movie was.

[ctc]

>In this film, this time-travel component of the franchise is virtually non-existent.

Y’know.... that’s actually a nice touch. In the original the war was already over by the time the film started, and sending the Arnieator back was Skynet’s last ditch attempt to prevent it’s own defeat. I kinda thought later films cheapened that by having all sorts of OTHER last ditch time whazzits lying around.

>T3 was solid overall and retained much of the TERMINATOR heart and charm

Hmmmm.... there were two things from 3 that really bothered me:

-dear Skynet; stop making Terminators that look like models and bodybuilders. An old man, and a German Shepard. Congrats; you win.
-they started with the Newminator killing a LOT of people.... and those deaths kinda went away in a hurry.

>T-4 Felt very much like a Terminator Flick

Killer robots.... check. Explosions.... check. Terminator is kind of a tough franchise to screw up....

Don C.

[Thor]

Besides a few plot holes I didn't have any real problems at all. It all depends on what you were looking for. Btw I think that the franchise should have ended at T2. I was bit disappointed with the T3 storyline, it seemed to take away from the dramatic ending of T2 also. I don't think T4 is better than the previous films but it's not much worse either.

[fallensaviour]

ANSWER: For it to be done WELL.
--------------------------------------------

No offense, but your take on WHY it was a good movie doesn't
hold any water.

No offense,but in short yes it does.

The "new" STAR WARS movies did a lot of "list satisfying"
for the SW franchise plot points such as the one you listed above
for the TERMINATOR franchise...

...and ultimately the new SW movies became a trilogy that you'd be
hard to find
ANYONE who'd say they were as good as... or kept the feel of...
the original trilogy.

Gee that's funny because only like a billion people loved the new movies.You ever notice it is only die hard 77 star wars fans that hate them?

I could go one by one and give a commentary on WHY
each of your points were weak in their execution...
but for now I'll just say they fell WAY short.

Gee and I could go post by post on why you act like an ******,But for now we'll just say it is your personality and that it falls way short.
Seriously do you think you are the worlds greatest debater or something?(this is rhetorical,just in case my sarcasm doesn't shine through)

I can accept that you liked T4 more,
but your reasoning on HOW it was a good movie
is as paper thin as I thought the T4 movie was.

I find it hard to waste my time trying to explain a film in great detail to somebody who has no interest or desire in liking it.
Again No offense just my opinion.

It's just a freaking popcorn flick for crying out loud!?!?!?!?

[huedell]

fallensavior...now I remember why it sucks getting this deep into these things...
(I haven't done it in a while)

Misunderstandings are the worst.

When I said:

could go one by one and give a commentary on WHY
each of your points were weak in their execution...
but for now I'll just say they fell WAY short.

I meant your points ala:

It was what it needed to be and scored on most points.
It had Arnold's entrance to the franchise.
It showed how John rose to become leader.
It showed how Kyle came to be with John and why.
It showed the skin farms.
It showed how the infiltration units(terminators) were created and used.

Those weren't even YOUR arguments...it was a list you made
LISTING "things" that were in the movie.

You took it "personally" as if I was criticizing "you" with that statement.

How COULD I criticize you, you didn't do anything
except "list things" in the movie.

Actually, I could criticize you for THAT, and golly I did...

but I don't think that means I think I'm the "world's greatest debater"
I just think that a LIST is a flimsy reason for saying a movie is good.
Isn't that reasonable?

Well, after reading what you said about the two STAR WARS trilogies,
maybe you WOULD find that unreasonable.

Yeah billions of people flocked to see the new SW trilogy, but
my personal take is that they are
sheep on the whole, who were drawn into the the whole she-bang
based on the after-effects of a much better trilogy.

But, let's put aside that the old SW trilogy is much better than the new one for
a second....as if that was false...which I guess is feasibly possible...
from certain (if a select few) rational perspectives....

Let's focus more on the point that the two trilogies were assembled in a
much, much different way than each other...most poignantly in
the character development and character motivations/plot points
which were severely lacking in the new SW flicks, bearing little resemblance
to the old trilogy.

That's a shame..not because the old SW movies were BETTER (altho
I believe that to be the case) but because the new SW movies
had a responsibility to connect somehow with the old ones
in mood and attitude and such...and the new SW movies
failed at that in many ways. (Ways brilliantly described
by that guy in the recent youtube clips)

Even with THAT being said...there was more of a connection in the SW stuff
(new to old)
than there was in SALVATION in relation to the older TERMINATOR
flicks...and a "list of things" doesn't do the trick...there's supposed to be a
certain charm retained that acknowledges the lighter side of robots
fighting and comingling with humans that did not exist at ALL in SALVATION.

This is simillar to how in SW there is a certain fun "swashbuckling adventure"
spirit that was actually there somewhat strong in the new SW movies...I
admit that.

There's more on why I didn't think SALVATION was worthy of being a
TERMINATOR movie (more which would be described in greated detail if I
addressed your "list" one by one, which I still am not in the mood to do!)

but, for now, I'll say that THAT'S my most basic gripe on T4 (the lack of
familliar character interaction...interaction inherent in the TERMINATOR series
up to that point...oh yeah, and a sense of "fun"...that was missing too).

I'm sorry we don't agree...and I'm sorry you took what I said
more PERSONALLY than I meant it...but hopefully
I've cleared it all up a bit

[fallensaviour]

I UNDERSTAND your point believe me I DO.
Don't get ME wrong or misunderstand ME.
For the record I am not one of the "sheep" that loves the new SW.
I don't think there are many in OUR generation that do or will.
the generation after us however eat it up like gobbledy goop.
Your right though,I was not trying to have an argument over T-4 and whether it was a great film.I was just listing a few points that they covered that joined the films together.
Much like new star wars and old star wars did the same.
This was a much different movie than the first T movies were.
My personal take on it is that T-4 is a better film than T-2 which was really weak and way to Hollywood.
Nothing will compare to T-1 though as the film and story telling were utterly brilliant!!!
T-3 was also a great film and well done.
I get that you didn't like it though I really do,alot of people didn't and that's cool.
The same can be said for Supes-3 the film in my opinion was a crap fest but you on the other hand like it???
Same goes here.
So for the record my listing goes like this;
T-1
T-3
T-4
T-2
Sw4
SW5
SW2
SW3
SW6
SW1
supes1
supes2
supes4
supes the return
supes 3

[huedell]

Your right though,I was not trying to have an argument over T-4 and whether it was a great film.I was just listing a few points that they covered that joined the films together.
Much like new star wars and old star wars did the same.
This was a much different movie than the first T movies were.

That's for sure. Much different.
If you can stomach that, then that's cool but I think it's
a boring, mirthless style for my tastes
and therefore irresponsible IMO to the tone set before it.

My personal take on it is that T-4 is a better film than T-2 which was really weak and way to Hollywood.

I'll agree to disagree on that...altho' I see what you mean by
"too Hollywood"---still that didn't bother me---
it seemed like a new and improved version of the original.

You say "Nothing will compare to T-1 though as the film and story telling
were utterly brilliant!!!" and altho' I agree that the storytelling was brilliant,
I think the production...the way it was shot was a bit too easy
to be looked at as "dated"...I feel Cameron was still getting his footing
in shooting movies, and of course the TERMINATOR franchise
can actually benefit from a "dated" feel, being that it's based so much on
"time periods"....altho' I'm trying to make the case for a difference of
"dated" in shooting style and "dated" in vibe....meh, it doesn't really
matter anyway....the 1st TERMINATOR was great and totally
fed into the superior T2 great in my opinion....mostly for that
fun, ironic vibe that it birthed of a futuristic robot romping through
80s America

You also said: "T-3 was also a great film and well done."
I couldn't agree more...it "checked all the boxes in my list"...
of course my list has more to do with vibe than "TERMINATOR plot points".
I appreciate you acknowledging that you got what I meant by that in your
last post BTW.

I get that you didn't like it though I really do,alot of people didn't and that's cool.
The same can be said for Supes-3 the film in my opinion was a crap fest but you on the other hand like it???

I think SUPES3 is "okay"...the reason it gets brought up so much
in the context of my posts is because I've stated that I think it's
much better than our generation of comicbook fans gave it credit for.
I continue to talk about it because people like you keep bringing it up.
Otherwise, I really think the WHOLE Reeve series was a kind of
clustermess---the only really sensible movie it wrought
was the homagey SUPERMAN RETURNS which was wonderfully
plotted and presented in the context of paying homage to
DONNER's original vision.

I think the only reason, I, or any of us hold the first two Reeve movies
in any high regard is because of DONNER's untouched magic in the 1st film
productionwise, and a great cast in the first film for a questionable plot
and a script that had some witty and insigtful lines of dialogue in it.
Otherwise, I think the 1st Supes was kind aflimst plotwise due to the ending
mostly and SUPERMAN2 is the most overrated comicbook movie of all time
and only suceeds because of the things I mentioned regarding S1,
most notably the cast, and most notably of the CAST...TERENCE STAMP
who's awesome villain performance MADE that otherwise uneven movie pop
right til the end.

I have nothing good to say about SUPERMAN4....I thought it stunk in just about every aspect except a few stray things including the
"Lois visiting sick Clark" scene.

EDITED TO ADD: I can't believe you think SUPES4 was better than SUPES3
nor can I believe you thought SW2 was better than SW3...and you
thought Jedi was so bad...but such is life.

[fallensaviour]

LOL...You are a funny guy Hue...
Sw2 and 3 were way better than jedi I'm afraid,I mean the whole ewoks thing was just plain dumb.
I did make a small mistake though as sw3 was better than 2 so I'll have to change that...LOL
I forgot about the annoying love story that dragged on and on...
T-2 though still was not as good to me as T-3 or T-1.
Maybe just due to the over abundance of cgi flash and the ever annoying edward furlong.
As for T-1 being dated yes a bit but it flows well as it is a time travel piece.Maybe they can reboot it with the new reese/chekov kid...LOL
Then T-4 would become solid cannon...

[huedell]

LOL...You are a funny guy Hue...

And, as far as I know...I'll be here all week...try the veal. Yuk! yuk!

Hey, seriously,
You probably said that due to my ramblings on the weakness of the Reeve movies...but, hey, you and I agree about the weakly rendered Padme/Anakin
romance in Ep. 2---(See, just because it "HAD TO HAPPEN" doesn't mean
it was done well in the film and gets a "PASS") ha

Also, we see eye to eye basically on T1 and T3.

I'm convinced the only people who did not like T3 were the ones tired
of the Tflicks at that point cause I thought it was that good.

As for T-1 being dated yes a bit but it flows well as it is a time travel piece.Maybe they can reboot it with the new reese/chekov kid...LOL
Then T-4 would become solid cannon...

I spoke a big game in my despising of T4/McG but if and when there's a new
"Tmovie" (T5? T6?) that sends Reese back in time, I'd have to see it... kinda
like how I'm sure MANY went to see ROTS just to see the pivotal SW moment... the Vader/Kenobi saber battle.