5th time is not a charm for Mark David Chapman

[Hector]

Most of the nations in the developed world have done away with the death penalty. Your arguments may convince you and the majority of Texans of the need to "put down" certain criminals, but the EU, Canada, Mexico, Australia, Greenland, many African nations, some of South America and other scattered countries across the world disagree with your line of reasoning and utterly reject your position.

Incarceration for life is sufficient punishment and achieves the same end -- that is, removing the perpetrator from the possibilty of repeat offense.

500 murders in Cd Juarez alone so far in the year...it will be 1000 by December.

Yeah, hurray for no capital punishment in Mexico, hurray.

[Hector]

"PC" has got nothing to do with it. I live in Texas, where the death penalty is PC -- it's the majority viewpoint among citizens and politicians.

Moral correctness, and the right to life of every person in the world, is what's under review here.

None of us has the right to decide when and under what circumstances another human being shall die. The very crime that we're punishing the individual for committing is now being visited upon them. This is unjust and morally wrong.

Wrathdemon and others have averred that they wouldn't wish this fate upon any other person but the subject of this thread. That statement is proof positive that this is an emotion-based issue, having nothing to do with justice or balance, but designed only to make the person feel better who has been emotionally wounded by the crime. If reason, balance and justice were at play here, all murderers across the board would be subject to deadly vengeance, not just the single individual we're discussing.

God, or the Universe, or Fate, or whatever you might choose to call the forces that are more powerful than ourselves, might have some larger purpose that we cannot understand. The individual whom you so abhor for hurting you by taking away your hero might have some part to play later in his life of which you are unaware, some part which he might not have been able to fulfill had he not been in the position he is. I don't mean to suggest that murdering Lennon was "right", but that "good" can flow from "evil" in a very unexpected and powerful way. I can give examples if you like.

As Gandalf tells Frodo: "Do not be so quick to deal out death. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

If someone where to rape and murder a female member of my family, I'll slice the animal into a million pieces. Moral, karma, whatever...I wouldn't care...I'd waste that garbage.

You wouldn't do the same?

Come on now.

[Hector]

Fry the sucker, fry him now.

[Vortigern99]

Most of the nations in the developed world have done away with the death penalty. Your arguments may convince you and the majority of Texans of the need to "put down" certain criminals, but the EU, Canada, Mexico, Australia, Greenland, many African nations, some of South America and other scattered countries across the world disagree with your line of reasoning and utterly reject your position.

Incarceration for life is sufficient punishment and achieves the same end -- that is, removing the perpetrator from the possibilty of repeat offense.

[Seeker]

The death penatly assures those who kill are not in a position to do it again.

Serial killers show no remorse what so ever for their crimes. They openly admit they will kill again if they ever get out. These "people" need to be put down period.

There are too many career rapist, murders and scum who rack up crime after crime, victim after victim. Even when they are in the prison system.

And until anyone can come up with some kind of "Therapy" that is 100% effective or some prison in which someone could never escape, be let out through some mistake, 0r prey on fellow inmates the Yeah I say death is not only an option but a responsibility of society.

For those who argue the morality of that I have a few people Id like you to meet. I'm sure you will change your tune. well if your still around or after youve buried your loved one

[huedell]

Oh wow. This thread has really taken a major turn from it's original topic.

If that's a thorn in your or some people's sides---what can i say....

It's hard for me to read certain things and not comment on them
appropriately...

These are big issues....almost the "no-no" issues (religion/politics)
but I'd say we're handling it pretty well.

As I've said before---and as Vort has also said Wrath....it's not that we
don't relate to your anger, it's just that we have a markedly different way of
expressing it----and a markedly different way of reacting to these kinds of things.

To answer/address your earlier "Adam West shot down in cold blood" scenario
---well, my biggest pop culture hero is DAVID LEE ROTH---and if that
happened to him----I'd be shocked, confused and deeply, deeply saddened
----but I'd be far from murderous about it----heck, I never even MET Roth.

As stated earlier in this thread---only two people hurt in my life would come
CLOSE to evoking such a deep, wild response---and as also said earlier---
even THEN I might have a hard time coming to terms with my reaction---
i.e. it wouldn't be "eye for an eye" simple (probably).

And I also recognize, Wrath, that you basically said the same thing in one
of your most recent posts

...I really don't know how I would handle
it if I was in the room with Mark David Chapman...

--so we're
really not that far apart in our feelings as we could be

[Vortigern99]

Huedell, well said. I agree completely and as a STAR WARS fan I follow you 100%.

Wrathdemon, I'm glad to read that "just the thought of John Lennon being murdered almost puts [your] rage over the top what [you] say and do are two different things". That is what I was attempting to show with my various examples and philisophical statements. I too loved Lennon with all my heart and once again, I can understand your anger at his killer.

[Cosmicman]

Oh wow. This thread has really taken a major turn from it's original topic.

[huedell]

Vort, although I may not agree with your ideas that lean more towards
relying on things akin to "karma" to bolster your viewpoint----still, much of your
post(s) points' regarding Chapman and justice towards him, I DO agree with.

What particularly struck me as sensible was the first thing you said in your last post...

"PC" has got nothing to do with it. I live in Texas, where the death penalty is
PC -- it's the majority viewpoint among citizens and politicians.

A lot of times people will rush to this mindframe because on the SURFACE it makes
so much sense. It is indeed the "PC" solution.

An eye for an eye!

Screw him!

Get out the pitchforks!

Ahem.

Anyone see a little underrated movie called REVENGE OF THE SITH?

Well, this reminds me of the tone of voice big, bad Palpatine had when
trying to comfort Anakin for killing Dooku----an unarmed prisoner.

"He cut off your arm. You wanted revenge." he says very nonchalantly.

Those words uttered by Palapatine SOUND sensible enough to the immature---
---or the ones looking to be easily comforted for performing a rash, extreme act...

but we....as more thoughtful beings (and as big STAR WARS fans
that KNOW Palpatine is manipulating the HECK outta trhe future Vader)
know that it's not that sensibly morally simple to deal out the death penalty
without a trial ---or some kind of examination that is performed, to lend an
element of intelligence and honor to such a weighty situation and decision.

[Cosmicman]

we should make a comic book with your character Cat

Wrath Demon,Rock Star by day vigilante by night.If you hurt the Innocent he will come after you,You can run but you can't hide,He'll find you and when he does...it's time to die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There already is. His name is Wrathdemon. My friend Dean (Member under Raydean1) and I are working on a illustrated story that I am attempted to get published. I got some editors looking at this story so I literally rebooted the character and redid the writing and working with Dean on the illustrations to make it more presentable. Crossing my fingers basically.

Wrathdemon isn't a rockstar through His looks are more based on the actor Stephen Nichols and he does kill in the name of justice.

Truthfully, I probably could never kill anybody. It is just the thought of John Lennon being murdered almost puts my rage over the top what I say and do are two different things. I really don't know how I would handle it if I was in the room with Mark David Chapman. I might attempt to grab him by the throat or something before security tackled me,

Some of you love Adam West. Imagine Adam West (or a hero of yours) being gunned down in cold blood for no reason. Doesn't that **** you off at the least?

[Vortigern99]

"PC" has got nothing to do with it. I live in Texas, where the death penalty is PC -- it's the majority viewpoint among citizens and politicians.

Moral correctness, and the right to life of every person in the world, is what's under review here.

None of us has the right to decide when and under what circumstances another human being shall die. The very crime that we're punishing the individual for committing is now being visited upon them. This is unjust and morally wrong.

Wrathdemon and others have averred that they wouldn't wish this fate upon any other person but the subject of this thread. That statement is proof positive that this is an emotion-based issue, having nothing to do with justice or balance, but designed only to make the person feel better who has been emotionally wounded by the crime. If reason, balance and justice were at play here, all murderers across the board would be subject to deadly vengeance, not just the single individual we're discussing.

God, or the Universe, or Fate, or whatever you might choose to call the forces that are more powerful than ourselves, might have some larger purpose that we cannot understand. The individual whom you so abhor for hurting you by taking away your hero might have some part to play later in his life of which you are unaware, some part which he might not have been able to fulfill had he not been in the position he is. I don't mean to suggest that murdering Lennon was "right", but that "good" can flow from "evil" in a very unexpected and powerful way. I can give examples if you like.

As Gandalf tells Frodo: "Do not be so quick to deal out death. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

[huedell]

Hector---in my opinion, avoiding championing the idea of seeking violent (or fatal)
revenge has nothing to do with being "PC"

What it exactly DOES have something to do with, I'm not sure at this very moment.

For now, I'll start with "anger management" issues.

[Hector]

I wouldn't kill him that's wrong, but I'd let him see my baseball bat real close-up a few times.....

So you would bash him nicely with a baseball bat?

[Hector]

Nah, forget this righteous PC stuff, I'm with Wrathdemon...fry that worthless pathetic thing...I'll gladly volunteer and bash his head with an aluminum bat.

[kingdom warrior]

I wouldn't kill him that's wrong, but I'd let him see my baseball bat real close-up a few times.....