West Vs Bale Vs Keaton Vs Kilmer Vs Clooney!

[The Bat]

SO, after reading some of mr. raydeen's posts, I've come to the conclusion that absolutely nothing is going to make him happy. Time to move on and stop trying to argue with the guy.

Yeah...I already drew that conclusion awhile back...I kept Him on My ignore list.

[darklord1967]

Sorry Darklord....but I use to post on Superhero Hype.com...and those Guys really ware out Your tolerence level for bickering(especially on the subject of Batman....because nothing is as near, and dear to My Heart).

Oh believe me, I am very aware of what it's like to have The Batman be near and dear to the heart.

As I mentioned before I've had a 41 year old love affair with this character that at times has seemed dangerously all-consuming. My involvement in the world of MEGO is made up PURELY of the Batman mythology, and I continue to spend thousands of dollars a year to effectively surround myself with a healthy (or un-healthy, as the case may be) Bat-fantasy world.

On the day I was born, I emerged from my mother's womb wearing a scalloped cape, and when the doc first slapped me to get me to cry, I responded wth a deep, whispered grunt.

I'm glad to see the tone of this tread has canged...and I really liked Your post in the "Aaron Eckhart aka Harvey Dent " thread.

Thanks, buddy. Even at its most heated, the debate in this thread never deteriorated into name-calling or rude disrespect aimed at anyone. This was basically some really passionate Bat-fans expounding (enthusiastically) upon the virtues of their own preferred version of the character... and as I'm sure you know, there are SO many! As I said before, even if we disagree about certain perferred aspects of the Bat mythology (as we inevitably will), such a discussion / debate can only be a good thing... especially if it is handled in a mature, mutually respectful way as i believe it was done here. I think that is what separates us here in the museum from other message boards like the one you describe

I just couldn't stand to hear You bash Bale...as I've waited so , so MANY years for them to cast a BATMAN that I'm completely happy with...and in My Eyes, They've finally DONE IT! I hope You understand...that I can't distance Myself from these feelings...I'm just so happy with direction My favorite Character is going in. The Dark Knight...is a dream come true to Me!

I understand how you feel.

When we were all discussing hated musical artists and you expressed your passionate disdain for Phil Collins (more than once), it was like a dagger in my heart as he is supremely my all time-favorite male vocalist.

But as I'm sure you know, we try to respect each other's feelings here with mutual understanding and some humor... during this debate and all others.

There were certainly no hard feelings. My only regret at the time was that by placing me on your ingnore list you were unaware of how much I really respect Christian Bale as an actor and how I believe him to be the best Batman we've had in live action film so far, despite the one or two issues I had with his voice, and the costume that was designed for him to wear (which is not his doing).

As for the "lisp" I attributed to him having, I'll be seeing the film again this weekend, and I'll be listening carefully, but I suspect Vortigern 99 may be onto something:

See, Christian Bale, being British, hides his accent very well while playing an American. But the "s" sound still comes off pretty sharply, and it stands out. That could be what I and the others are hearing. In any case that sharp "s" may come off as a "lisp" to some ears while in fact it may not be an all-together accurate description as Vort defined it.

BTW...as You can see...I've removed You from My ignore list.

Nothing makes he happier bud! Thanks for listening.

[Vortigern99]

Raydeen, I respect your opinion and your decision not to see TDK. I do. I read your reasoning and I totally understand where you're coming from. But please hear me out.

Like you, I've been a Batfan since as long as I can remember. (This is not a contest of one-upmanship; this is a sharing of a unique and potent bond.) And, like you and darklord, I initially had a problem with the suit. I don't just mean Bale's, I mean every suit, from Keaton to Clooney and back again. Back in early 1989, when the first pic of the bat-suited Keaton appeared in TIME magazine, I was crushed by the somber look of this tar-black demon. I wanted the blue-and-grays, the white eyes, the classic Batman look -- and frankly, I still do. Nothing would please me more than to see the Neal Adams/Jim Aparo/JL Garcia-Lopez Batman up on the big screen. The body armor can go under the gray suit material, the cape/gloves/boots/mask color should be a midnight blue similar to Adam West's, the bat symbol should preferably be inside a bright yelow oval, and the eyes should be white all the time. What Batfan would not want this iconic, aesthetically-pleasing figure dashing through the shadows or slinging on a batline through Gotham City?

Unfortunately, this isn't going to happen -- at least, not anytime soon. And while the rubbery or mechanized body armor of the previous incarnations has disturbed me for years, taking me out of the "Batman" experience I've wanted and imagined, in Batman Begins it began to bother me less -- because it was explained. We got scenes of Wayne talking to Fox about this military-grade material, scenes of Wayne modifying the suit, painting it, trying it out for the first time. The bat armor was woven into the fabric of the character himself, with reason and logic and attention to detail. For me personally, I began to accept the idea of bat armor with that film, especially on repeat viewings. The representation of Batman, the character, is so spot-on in BB, that his choice of armor suddenly became a non-issue for me.

In the new movie, it's even less of an issue. Darklord has criticised the armor, and I think he said it was distracting, but if you're following this detailed and engaging story, this urban crime thriller that shocks and surprises at almost everu turn, you don't even notice the armor. All you see (and hear!) is BATMAN. For the most part he moves fast so you can't get a bead on him; when he lingers he does so in shadow, and you can't quite make out what he's got on. Yes, you get good long peeks at the armor when Wayne is working on it or talking to Fox about it; and there is one incredibly well-lit scene where you get an eyeful of it. But the silhouette, the icon of Batman is maintained, as is his character. The story and characterization are so true to the DC Comics character that you simply don't notice the mech armor.

I understand if you don't like these Nolan movies. They're dark and intense and not quite as "fun" -- in the sense of adventurous -- as your average Batman comic. But if you're a fan of the character, you deserve to be told that this movie nails him -- who he is, what he stands for. Maybe you won't like the armor, regardless of what I've said or tried to say here; and like darklord maybe you won't like the voice in many instances. But for most of us, TDK is spot-on.

Give it a chance, at least. You might be surprised.

[The Bat]

Well...it's good we can bury the Hatchet...no hard feeling Man. I get a little Bat-Crazy...then Me Irish temper kicks in!

[darklord1967]

Raydeen, I respect your opinion and your decision not to see TDK. I do. I read your reasoning and I totally understand where you're coming from. But please hear me out.

Like you, I've been a Batfan since as long as I can remember. (This is not a contest of one-upmanship; this is a sharing of a unique and potent bond.) And, like you and darklord, I initially had a problem with the suit. I don't just mean Bale's, I mean every suit, from Keaton to Clooney and back again. Back in early 1989, when the first pic of the bat-suited Keaton appeared in TIME magazine, I was crushed by the somber look of this tar-black demon. I wanted the blue-and-grays, the white eyes, the classic Batman look -- and frankly, I still do. Nothing would please me more than to see the Neal Adams/Jim Aparo/JL Garcia-Lopez Batman up on the big screen. The body armor can go under the gray suit material, the cape/gloves/boots/mask color should be a midnight blue similar to Adam West's, the bat symbol should preferably be inside a bright yelow oval, and the eyes should be white all the time. What Batfan would not want this iconic, aesthetically-pleasing figure dashing through the shadows or slinging on a batline through Gotham City?

Unfortunately, this isn't going to happen -- at least, not anytime soon. And while the rubbery or mechanized body armor of the previous incarnations has disturbed me for years, taking me out of the "Batman" experience I've wanted and imagined, in Batman Begins it began to bother me less -- because it was explained. We got scenes of Wayne talking to Fox about this military-grade material, scenes of Wayne modifying the suit, painting it, trying it out for the first time. The bat armor was woven into the fabric of the character himself, with reason and logic and attention to detail. For me personally, I began to accept the idea of bat armor with that film, especially on repeat viewings. The representation of Batman, the character, is so spot-on in BB, that his choice of armor suddenly became a non-issue for me.

In the new movie, it's even less of an issue. Darklord has criticised the armor, and I think he said it was distracting, but if you're following this detailed and engaging story, this urban crime thriller that shocks and surprises at almost everu turn, you don't even notice the armor. All you see (and hear!) is BATMAN. For the most part he moves fast so you can't get a bead on him; when he lingers he does so in shadow, and you can't quite make out what he's got on. Yes, you get good long peeks at the armor when Wayne is working on it or talking to Fox about it; and there is one incredibly well-lit scene where you get an eyeful of it. But the silhouette, the icon of Batman is maintained, as is his character. The story and characterization are so true to the DC Comics character that you simply don't notice the mech armor.

I understand if you don't like these Nolan movies. They're dark and intense and not quite as "fun" -- in the sense of adventurous -- as your average Batman comic. But if you're a fan of the character, you deserve to be told that this movie nails him -- who he is, what he stands for. Maybe you won't like the armor, regardless of what I've said or tried to say here; and like darklord maybe you won't like the voice in many instances. But for most of us, TDK is spot-on.

Give it a chance, at least. You might be surprised.

Raydeen, You and I agree on many of the things that we wish we could have had (but didn't get) in a big-budget Batman film.

And despite the olympian battle of words that Vortigern 99 and I engaged in regarding our differences of opinion on Bale's interpretation of Batman, what he is saying here essentially makes plenty of sense.

Despite my few issues with Bale, The Dark Knight really is an astounding achievement in film, and a watershed moment in the near 70 year history of this character that we all love so much.

Do yourself a favor. Give the film a chance. I know you'll be blown away by what you see.

If you really DON'T want to pay to go see it, I'll happily Paypal you the money necessary to cover the price of admission.

I'm deadly serious about my offer.

You can go see the movie ON ME, and if you don't like it, you're not out any cash.

How's that?

[thunderbolt]

Yeah...I already drew that conclusion awhile back...I kept Him on My ignore list.

He's pretty close to getting on mine, but I'm afraid I'd miss the comedy of his posts.

[Hulk]

The beauty of this thread is that even though I got to have my say on how I thought the Batmen rank against each other ages ago, I can come here when I need something to put me to sleep. I can't even associate the names to the arguments, but they are almost all equally effective in their inanity and boredom. Thanks for the snoozefest gents!

[huedell]

Personally, I check in to this thread for the posts with the "chime inners"
criticizing the presence of the thread arguments they think are a waste of time---
instead of addressing the actual subject at hand.

It reminds me that I'm not the only one on this board who can't let things slide
without opening my big mouth

[The Bat]

Personally, I check in to this thread for the posts with the "chime inners"
criticizing the presence of the thread arguments they think are a waste of time---
instead of addressing the actual subject at hand.

It reminds me that I'm not the only one on this board who can let things slide
without opening my big mouth

[huedell]

I actually messed up the syntax up there---I meant "can't" instead of "can"

It's funny either way

[Raydeen1]

He's pretty close to getting on mine, but I'm afraid I'd miss the comedy of his posts.

Not sure what you find so humerous or why you feel a need to make a personal attack online which is so mature but I'm glad to have brightened your day.

[Vortigern99]

The beauty of this thread is that even though I got to have my say on how I thought the Batmen rank against each other ages ago, I can come here when I need something to put me to sleep. I can't even associate the names to the arguments, but they are almost all equally effective in their inanity and boredom. Thanks for the snoozefest gents!

Wow, thanks alot. You don't have to read my posts, or anyone else's, if you find them inane and boring. I happen to value debate, and take pleasure in the frank exchange of ideas with others. Your coming in here, to belittle those involved in a friendly discussion on a topic that interests us, marks you as small-minded and rude. Next time keep your insults to yourself.

[Vortigern99]

Raydeen, did you happen to read my message to you on the previous page?

[darklord1967]

Raydeen, did you happen to read my message to you on the previous page?

... or my response to it with the Special Offer?

[Hector]

The beauty of this thread is that even though I got to have my say on how I thought the Batmen rank against each other ages ago, I can come here when I need something to put me to sleep. I can't even associate the names to the arguments, but they are almost all equally effective in their inanity and boredom. Thanks for the snoozefest gents!

Should we talk about the Hulk instead then?