Looks like I gotta adapt again - DVD/BluRay disappearing

[HardyGirl]

I'm not giving up physical media. The day games and movies are released digital only is the day I stop buying.

Right on!

[Hedji]

There is no effing way I'm paying for something I can't touch or resell.

Preach on, brother!

This thread makes me sad.

[Werewolf]

Giving up our rights of ownership is nothing we should be racing to embrace. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine.

When you buy a paperback book, vinyl album, VHS tape, CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, etc. you own that item forever. You can sell it, trade it, give it away because you own it. Even as formats or technology changes or the content goes out of print it's still yours to keep and enjoy as long as you want.

When you buy a digital movie, for example, you don't really own it. You are actually granted a limited license of use. If your streaming service goes out of business, loses the rights to content or you change cable/satellite providers that $20 digital movie you "bought" is gone and so is your entire digital library and all the money you spent on it.

[MRP]

Giving up our rights of ownership is nothing we should be racing to embrace. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine.

When you buy a paperback book, vinyl album, VHS tape, CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, etc. you own that item forever. You can sell it, trade it, give it away because you own it. Even as formats or technology changes or the content goes out of print it's still yours to keep and enjoy as long as you want.

When you buy a digital movie, for example, you don't really own it. You are actually granted a limited license of use. If your streaming service goes out of business, loses the rights to content or you change cable/satellite providers that $20 digital movie you "bought" is gone and so is your entire digital library and all the money you spent on it.

Of if your house burns down, a tornado or hurricane rips through, a gas main blows up on your street, a pipe bursts in winter and floods your house, an unsupervised visiting toddler gets into your stuff and breaks it, you get divorced and spouse takes your stuff, or...fill in the blank you can lose your physical copies just as easily and have to rebuy, replace them all. You take risks no matter what format you have access to something. We think the risks online are higher, but there are far more house fires every year than digital wipes.

I get referring to own physical copies of something, it's my preference too, but the idea that a physical copy is any more safe or sure to last than a digital version doesn't hold water.

-M

[Werewolf]

a tornado or hurricane rips through

Comparing a natural disaster or freak accident to something as common as changing a provider is more than a bit of a reach as well as a false equivalence. For example, I just changed from Directv to Comast and everything I DVRed is gone. Something like that's is far more likely to happen to someone than a natural disaster. Not to mention that you can also lose content at any time if your streaming service loses the digital distribution rights.

I forgot to mention: If you are really worried about fires or natural disasters, you can also insure physical items you own. You can't insure a digital library.

[MRP]

Comparing a natural disaster or freak accident to something as common as changing a provider is more than a bit of a reach as well as a false equivalence. For example, I just changed from Directv to Comast and everything I DVRed is gone. Something like that's is far more likely to happen to someone than a natural disaster. Not to mention that you can also lose content at any time if your streaming service loses the digital distribution rights.

I forgot to mention: If you are really worried about fires or natural disasters, you can also insure physical items you own. You can't insure a digital library.

DVR is not a permanent medium. It was never intended to be. It wasn't sold to you as a permanent storage device. If you thought it was that was your unrealistic expectation not a fault of the device, provider, or format. And changing provider is choice (unless you are moving, but even if you keep the same provider when you move you have to turning the physical equipment which causes you to lose what you have DVRed anyways), just like upgrading from VCR to DVD was a choice, and that choice would require you buy all new copies of your physical media to use in the new format.

And if you are worried about the security of files, you can make back ups files, get extra external hard drives, etc. I've lost far more physical copies of books/movies, etc. to accidents or happenstance than I have digital files over the years (and this is coming from someone who last 85+ pages of a graduate thesis I was working on to a corrupted floppy disk back in the day and had to start the writing all over).

And yes, I can insure items like movies and books, but I can probably pay far less replacing them than I would pay in premiums over the years, so it's all money out of my pocket just the same, so I would be spending just as much to insure them as I would to replace them in the long run. Houses and cars and such are one thing, disposable entertainment items really aren't worth insuring as you will most likely end up spending more out of pocket insuring them than you would replacing them unless they are destroyed as soon as you get the insurance.

A lot depends where you live, but frozen pipes, tornadoes, etc. can happen a lot more frequently than the kind of things that cause you to lose files on a computer unless you are choosing to engage is a lot of risky behavior that puts your computer or device at risk. There's a reason most professional and academic archival storage techniques now prefer to make digital files of things to prevent risk of loss than keeping hard copies, because in the long run, those digital copies are far more secure and at less risk of loss than physical copies.

-M

[MRP]

(double post) apologies
-M

[Werewolf]

DVR is not a permanent medium.

I never said it was. I used that as an example of changing a provider.

[emeraldknight47]

I'm in the old-school camp here. If it's a movie or music I like, I want to own a physical copy; I feel like it gives me some tangible connection to something I enjoy (or love, depending on what it might happen to be). I do use streaming to watch things that I might be on the fence about. If I watch it and I enjoyed it, I will go out and get myself a physical copy (or order it from someone on the Internet); if I watch it and didn't enjoy it, then I can save myself the dough. A good example for me recently was "THE MARTIAN." Didn't know if I'd enjoy it or not, but it wound up really knocking my socks off and I scored the extended edition Bluray at Best Buy on sale for $10 a few weeks ago. I feel the same way about comics; I don't buy them anymore (mostly because they are SO convoluted these days and neither the art nor the writing are up to my old-school standards), but if I did, I would buy the physical "floppies," (I believe that's what they're called these days) because I enjoy that tactile sensation of turning pages.

[Hedji]

The sad part is, the market probably won't be decided by us. It'll be decided by a younger demographic that spends (or pirates) on streaming. I don't see the youth accumulating a physical media collection, because of their attachment to their phones. Having said that, I think DVD and Blu Ray will be around for a long, long time still. There's money to be made off of cinephiles.... just not the big money of the 1990s DVD boom. Niche boutiques will be where it's at. The scary part is not the media disappearing, but the support from the hardware manufacturers.

[VintageJoe70]

Since we are on this subject...anyone here have amazon video or hulu?...which is better or offers more stuff?...are there any downsides to either of these?...I'm asking because I'm thinking of going this route and wanna know what I'm in for....thanks.. ....

[daz71]

most of the stuff i want never got released on vhs ,dvd or blu-ray .no places stream them either.i have to rely on the grey market.

[SKotK]

DVR is not a permanent medium. It was never intended to be. It wasn't sold to you as a permanent storage device. If you thought it was that was your unrealistic expectation not a fault of the device, provider, or format. And changing provider is choice (unless you are moving, but even if you keep the same provider when you move you have to turning the physical equipment which causes you to lose what you have DVRed anyways), just like upgrading from VCR to DVD was a choice, and that choice would require you buy all new copies of your physical media to use in the new format.

Not the same, though. You can still (with some difficulty sometimes, admittedly) continue to view physical media. I still own a VCR, cassette player, and record player so I can play my large library of videotapes, audio tapes, and vinyl. It's a must for me. I still have a lot of things that have never made it to digital media, and probably never will. The only reason I don't own a laserdisc player is because the number of things only available on laserdisc at this point that I care about is small enough ignore for me.

And if you are worried about the security of files, you can make back ups files, get extra external hard drives, etc. I've lost far more physical copies of books/movies, etc. to accidents or happenstance than I have digital files over the years (and this is coming from someone who last 85+ pages of a graduate thesis I was working on to a corrupted floppy disk back in the day and had to start the writing all over).

Ouch...that's brutal. Floppies were particularly fragile.

I do think chances of losing digital media are far greater than losing physical in most cases, despite what you are saying. I've lost a number of hard drives over the years, some of which took some of my data with them. Thank goodness I had backups at least to a certain point. Very recently, I bought a brand new Western Digital 3 TB portable drive to back my TV show DVDs up to. That drive is now failing, causing corruption on a lot of the media. I don't even know the extent of the damage yet. Good thing I still have my physical media though, eh?

And yes, I can insure items like movies and books, but I can probably pay far less replacing them than I would pay in premiums over the years, so it's all money out of my pocket just the same, so I would be spending just as much to insure them as I would to replace them in the long run. Houses and cars and such are one thing, disposable entertainment items really aren't worth insuring as you will most likely end up spending more out of pocket insuring them than you would replacing them unless they are destroyed as soon as you get the insurance.

Unless you are already insuring your stuff anyway. As of the new year, my apartment complex is requiring I purchase renters' insurance on my new lease. It's not a bad idea anyway...I have been wanting to insure my stuff anyway.

A lot depends where you live, but frozen pipes, tornadoes, etc. can happen a lot more frequently than the kind of things that cause you to lose files on a computer unless you are choosing to engage is a lot of risky behavior that puts your computer or device at risk. There's a reason most professional and academic archival storage techniques now prefer to make digital files of things to prevent risk of loss than keeping hard copies, because in the long run, those digital copies are far more secure and at less risk of loss than physical copies.

In some sense, you are correct, as long as there are redundant backups of those digital files...because chances are you will end up having to restore at least some of them at some point. It's not so much that they are more secure and at less risk of loss, but that they are much easier to keep multiple backup copies of in case the original fails.

But any professional archivist always keeps the original physical media intact anyway. Sometimes you wind up having to go back to it. Imagine if studios had thrown out their original film reels after scanning them to laserdisc or even DVD resolution, because that was "good enough" at that point. 2k and 4k resolution Blu-ray wouldn't even be able to exist. In fact, according to Lucasfilm that's one of the main reasons that we can't have the original non-digitalized Star Wars ever again as scanned from the original elements...because some of those elements were cut up and destroyed to construct the Special Editions in 1996-1997. Amazingly short-sighted on their part, for sure.

I may be in the minority, but for me personally I have to maintain a library of physical media for the things I love. And even if I convert, say, a VHS or audio cassette tape I have to digital (which I have done), I still have to keep that original around...because something might happen to my digital copies (and it has), causing me to have to go back and convert the original physical media all over again (which I've had to do).

Don't get me wrong; I love having digital copies of things for their ease of use and easy storage. But I certainly don't have any illusion of great security over those files. My only defense is to try and keep them backed up and hope nothing happens to the backup.

--SKot

[Blue Meanie]

I worked for The Wiz and Circuit City, helped Circuit City put together 4 of their first stores here in NY, and after I was laid off by them in '98 they decided to start downsizing their "Accessories" in the music and video department. The "Accessories" were the back catalog CD's and DVD's that are accessories to the electronics that they were selling...CD players/DVD Players/VHS etc. That was around '99/'00. This has been going on for the last 16 years and nobody should be surprised by it. Especially with today's generation that doesn't want to pay for anything when it comes to music/video/TV etc. It's sad because what most don't realize is that what you are getting via a download is COMPRESSED even more than the material is already compressed to fit the CD and DVD format. You lose high end and low end and also lose sharpness in picture quality. It's a fact. As much as computers and tech can re-master or re-distribute analog audio and video it can never be EXACTLY like the original source. Look up wave form in google. I learned this when I was a student in recording and engineering. The tech/computers of today still map out waves and wave forms in points on a wave. The new wave created by this tech will never be as rounded and smooth as an original sound/analog wave. Probably one of the main reasons for the resurgence of Vinyl. I am a fan of the original source be it vinyl or reel to reel or VHS. As imperfect as it may have been...it's still a lot closer to the original source material than downloading/digital format. That's my 2 cents...

[Donkey Hoatie]

Since we are on this subject...anyone here have amazon video or hulu?...which is better or offers more stuff?...are there any downsides to either of these?...I'm asking because I'm thinking of going this route and wanna know what I'm in for....thanks.. ....

I have Amazon Video as part of my Prime membership. Prime is $99/year, if I'm not mistaken and well worth it, considering you get the free, 2-day shipping on eligible products, plus streaming video and music, amongst a bunch of other perks. The selection of videos can be lacking, but I come across shows on Amazon Video I enjoy fairly regularly (The Americans is a good example). I don't think I've ever looked for movies on the site, since I can usually find what I want between Xfinity On-Demand and Netflix. Yeah, I pay way too much for content between those 3 sources, but I feel like I use them all frequently enough that I'm not totally getting ripped off.

I don't have Hulu, so I can't say how the lineups compare, but Amazon also has their own branded shows which seem to get pretty decent reviews (House of Cards, etc.). Don't know if that sways you or not. Like I said, with the Prime membership, you're also getting more than just videos, and if you try, you can definitely get more than your money's worth from it.